Undistorted Masculine

Hi Jordyn,

I have asked Mary Blue, author of Lilith, to read through your question to see if she has something to say.

Relative to your questions I would say for a man to discover/ actualize his natural masculinity is through the placements of his natal Liltih, it's S.Node and the location of it's planetary ruler, the N.Node and the location of it's planetary ruler. Then the houses that these are in, and the aspects they make to other planets in the natal chart. In the same way, a women can actualize, realize, their own inherent masculinity.

The Leo archetype of course is one of creative self actualization and the link to Aquarius correlates to a rebellion against all stereotyping.

If you want to ask Mary Blue anything concerning the Lilith archetype please feel free to do so.

God Bless, Rad

Hi Jordyn and Rad,

This is a great topic, certainly waiting on Mary Blue's view too and a question I have had myself, although I wouldn't separate it as a masculine/feminine issue but much more as how we are balanced in this roles, tacking us back to the original distortions of the feminine and starting from there.

Still relative to what you mention Jordyn, i share one reflection that came to me when mars was retrograde in Gemini, maybe others can see value in it too, it happened when I was reading one of Yogananda's beautiful affirmations, that would make much more meaning to me if instead of God I would say Goddess, or instead of Father I would say Mother, but at the same time it was really obvious to me too that it was perfectly said by Yogananda the way that he said it. So my personal understanding, which is of course a personal view but nonetheless, was that probably it would be more natural to speak, relate to Source, relative to how we related and view ourselves and our gender/genderless sense of ourselves in general (male, female, non binary) as if mars in gemini had too a message for a genderless idea of Source, interchangeable as a personal one. That in a way, simply changing this little part to how we feel natural about it (this mars transit was in may 9th house) can create much more meaning.

It's just a curiosity but I thought it was a nice one to share on this topic.

Best to All,

Helena

Hello to All,

I am cross posting Madonna's chart on this thread to demonstrate how Lilith can be utilized in a soul's chart to look at the undistorted feminine and masculine energies within that chart per Rad. On the Goddess thread Rad had posted Madonna's chart to look at the Goddesses within. Here is Madonna's chart, and also, what I wrote for whoever is interested in looking at the undistorted feminine and masculine energies reflected in Lilith, her nodes, nodal rulers, and some key aspects.

Her natal Lilith is: 16 Libra N.Node 2 Sagittarius, S.Node 9 Cancer

Her natal Amazon is: 26 Leo, N.Node 11 Gemini, S.Node 5 Scorpio

Her natal Ceres is: 9 Virgo, N.Node 6 Cancer, S.Node 29 Scorpio

From what I am correlating with Madonna and her chart, I see that with her Pluto in Virgo in a new phase conjunction to its ruler, Mercury, both being in the 12th and Mercury retrograde that there has been a transition occurring where she was being called to utilize her own voice as a way to resolve something from the past. With her just entering the 3rd stage of individuated she is a soul who has her own individuality in tact and is utilizing her individuality and voice as a way to be of service to those who feel disillusioned and made to feel guilt for being whom they naturally are.

With Mars in a first quarter trine to her Pluto Mercury conjunction, and Mercury being retrograde, there has been a need to analyze and get to the bottom of where she has felt like she couldn't act on those desires to utilize her voice to speak up and out. This lifetime speaks to the need to dissolve that dynamic, and to also exhaust that desire. She is a soul who has been getting to the bottom of what her values and needs are and has desires to do so which then help shape new beliefs, thus empowering her and empowering others.

With her South node in Aries/8th, ruled by Mars in Taurus/9th, she has had desires to get to the bottom of what her values are and a need to listen to her own inner voice and intuition as to how to act and make a choice about how to do so. With Mars being her South Node/8th ruler, she has also been learning how to understand and discern what her own sexual values are and has had desires to create new beliefs stemming from listening to what her natural sexual values are that come from within and feel natural to her. With Mars square her Uranus in Leo/12th, she has been learning how to act on these desires as a way to learn how to co create by projecting herself out through the function of creative actualization. This helps her to liberate from old ideals that she has overly self identified with. With Mars being ruled by her Venus in Leo, she has used her own natural resources within as a way to creatively actualize in the past and by aligning her new values and beliefs with the creative function within.

With her Lilith being in Libra and the second house this is a soul who is rooted in giving, sharing, and inclusion; the undistorted principle of her most natural expression of her inner feminine. Her Lilith is ruled by her Venus in the 11/Leo. Using her own natural resources that are intrinsic and unique to herself she is able to project herself out into the mainstream to mirror the undistorted feminine qualities that are rooted in natural law; giving sharing and inclusion. She has also utilized her sexuality as a way to have creative expression that continues to liberate her from the suppression of that in the past. Her Lilith is sextile Saturn in a last quarter phase, meaning that she is able to understand what she must do to enter into society with her own individuality intact, and by utilizing those natural resources she is also able to resolve where trauma has occurred in the past that has created distortions within the feminine principle. This is symbolized by the south node of her Lilith being in Cancer and in the 11th, ruled by her moon in Virgo/1st. Where trauma that occurred in the past created a situation where she could have felt or lost how to inwardly validate herself because conditioned shame from the trauma had created distortions, and created a sense of lost identity stemming from conditioned guilt. This is also seen with her south node of Lilith being conjunct her north node of Ceres. There is a reclaiming of the undistorted feminine principle which she has felt has been distorted in the past through traumatic events and experiences.

With her North Node of Lilith in Sagittarius in the 3rd, there is a need to learn about more about values rooted in natural law, as she learns about this through her pursuit of a philosophy or cosmological value system, she then gets to learn about what she needs as she discovers more about her natural self, then she has been able to create new values, what gives her meaning, this ultimately shapes new beliefs for her to then utilize as a way to project herself out and be of service to others. To also, love authentically.

Her Saturn which is retrograde and is in a disseminating trine to her South Node in Aries/8th house, ruled by Mars. There has been an ongoing process of coming back to whom she naturally is by getting to the bottom of the masculine and patriarchal distortions that have been conditioned upon her in the past. By her making a conscious effort to understand this, the information and awareness can come through. She then gets to utilize this information in a way to continue to shape new needs, values, and what gives her meaning, and thus perpetuating new beliefs that are rooted in natural law. With her South Node of Lilith being in a crescent phase to her Mercury she has needed to come out of hiding and to implement and utilize the awareness of how to inwardly validate herself by utilizing her voice and to be a person who speaks for the "underdog" or those who have experienced similar dynamics of shame and guilt stemming from sexuality that she has overcome herself in the past, this creates a pathway of karma yoga and continues to liberate her from the guilt she has felt in the past that is unnatural. She is a soul who continuously transforms her identity as a way challenge her own inner status quo, forever mirroring the internal transformation occurring within.

With her North Node conjunct Jupiter and sextile her Sun in Leo/12th this is another signature for her to utilize all she has been learning and discovering about herself prior to this lifetime and implementing those beliefs that are rooted in her core values of giving, sharing, and inclusion as a way to co create with Goddess and be a voice and beacon for those who feel they don't have a voice to express or one that would not be heard. By doing so, she is able to not only shed skins of the past that she has overly identified with, but also work through unnatural conditioned guilt that has occurred stemming from her own femininity and sexuality, this also helps to dissolve the old distortions that conditioned guilt has brought. This also helps her to continue to self-actualize in this lifetime through the simplification process of aligning herself with timeless values through the act of co creation with Goddess by fostering and implementing the natural values through the truths that she has come to understand. This is a soul who utterly has to "walk her talk" by not only understanding her values but aligning herself with them in such a way as to be a living embodiment of them. Thus, being a natural teacher through her projection of those values. This is also seen with her North Node of Lilith and being ruled by Jupiter conjunct her lunar North Node, as stated above. She has learned how to listen to what others are needing as a way to utilize not only her own inner voice direction, Goddess' direction, but doing it in a way that benefits the whole.

Much Love,

Jordyn

Hi Jordyn,

Thanks to Rad and all for inviting me to contribute. The non binary sexual orientation is an important issue for our times especially with respect to the undistorted masculine. I read an earlier post of yours Jordyn about this subject and was deeply moved by the struggle the individuals within your group must experience and commend your efforts to help them. I can offer some info that might help about gender and natural sexuality from a pre-patriarchal or pagan perspective that relates to the Lilith archetype and connects to your current question.

There are two kinds of distortions to consider when discussing the feminine and masculine principles. One is linked to gender and its polarization because of patriarchal influence and the other are distortions or imbalances linked to the female and male creating principles as a function of involution and evolutionary cycles the Soul undergoes during its journey. I will cover both, but first starting with Lilith because she is the root of the undistorted feminine and masculine.

Would utilizing Lilith be beneficial for unraveling the undistorted masculine within each of us, as Lilith can show us the feminine principle within all (male and female) and the masculine come from the feminine? ....What are the best astrological archetypes that help give a fuller picture of rediscovering what the undistorted are with both the masculine and feminine principle/archetypes?

Yes. Archetypally, Lilith corresponds to the root as Soul, the natural feminine creating principle from which all else arises. As Soul in her primal state, she is gynandrous or androgynous (or transgender as referred to in Lilith, ie beyond gender ) as a reflection of consciousness itself at its Root. In this primal state, gender differentiation does not negatively affect one’s orientation to life because both female and male humans operate in a Soul-centered way, abiding by Natural Laws that sustain it. There were no stereotypes connected to gender like in today’s world. Yes, they are sexually distinct for reproductive purposes, as JWG taught where the male was created from the female to enhance overall immune function and vitality through heterosexuality. However, sexually they functioned in a state of balance as two equal parts of a whole, being that they were Soul-centered, not in a state of imbalance like in today’s world where the male is the dominant, controlling sexual partner or master, and the female is expected to function in submissive servitude. This distortion of inequality creates the opposite effect, and it is anything but being Soul-centered.

The female and male creating principles refer to yin and yang, the universal creative forces. They are forces or powers that the Soul possesses upon which its journey to realization unfolds (yang) and enfolds back upon (yin). With respect to Lilith’s primary archetypal function as guardian and protectress of humankind’s way and the different ways that women (and men as shall be shown) are empowered to fulfill this role, her actions are driven by that which nurtures or inspires a return to Center. The quality of nurture corresponds to the female creating principle of pure yin. Creative inspiration corresponds to the male creating principle of pure yang.

In the 64 Chinese hexagrams that exist, pure yin is number two, preceded by pure yang as number one, the principle of initial creative thrust. This thrust as yang emanates outwards from the Source, such as demonstrated by our universal creation point known as the Big Bang. Immediately following the creative thrust or inspiration that set life/consciousness into motion in our universe is the female principle of nurture. Everything in Creation reflects this fundamental principle from the standpoint of Natural Laws - that the universal creative thrust is primarily one inspired by nurture. This truth can be known by the existential paradigm and Soul’s tutorial expressed through Mother Earth. It’s one of nurture. This is Lilith’s baseline, every Soul’s baseline, whether born as female or male gender....in an undistorted form.

What is at the Center that Lilith’s archetype in both female and male genders guards or protects? It is the consciousness of the Soul (yin) and the thrust (yang) that follows to preserve its connection to the Source from which it was created. From this Center, like the Big Bang, all life involutes, or separates from Center, and then evolves, or returns to Center.

These dual forces of yin (female) and yang (male) are not gender specific per se, but refer to the fundamental creating principles within the universal Creation. Yin refers to the universal/Soul’s powers of absorption or unification, returning to center (yin) while yang to its powers of repulsion or projection, separating from center (yang). Both yin and yang operate continuously as they are instrumental to the involution and evolution of life/consciousness itself, to Creation itself. Without them operating in cyclic rounds in eternal reciprocal partnership, their would be no movement, no action for any Soul’s journey or Creation itself to unfold (yang) and enfold back (yin) upon to complete the cycle. And it is through their cyclical turns with one another that involutionary and evolutionary forces operating upon each Soul manifest.

So Lilith can be used as a baseline beyond gender for both women and men, signifying a state of primal consciousness that is undistorted, unconditioned, wild and free. All actions under Natural Laws for every Soul are compelled by Lilith’s primary archetypal function as guardian or protectress, across both genders in their roles as parents, siblings, family members, group leaders, lovers, warriors, teachers, caretakers, lawmakers, healers, builders, inventors, crafters, providers of resources such as food, medicine, material comforts such as clothing and housing, etc.

Following every Soul’s origination point, the fundamentals as cited above belonging to the yin and yang creating principles apply. The female and male principles that arise from this Center for any individual in any particular life journey connect to specific self-empowerment issues intended for development as determined by the Soul based on the nature of its desires. Distortions reflect involutionary states that the Soul must grow beyond in order to harness the wisdom veiled beneath them. With respect to the undistorted masculine, analysis of Lilith’s archetypal profile as Rad suggested can provide insights in terms of its function as guardian or protector coming through any Soul beyond gender. Any imbalances found between yin and yang (such as a preponderance by planetary sign and house placement in one or the other) in the natal chart can imply issues connected to the Soul’s powers associated with them. When any distortion to one’s primal nature manifests, self-empowerment issues inevitably follow, which is the root of the Pluto/Scorpio archetype, each individual having their own archetypal signature reflecting it.

The undistorted female and male with respect to gender refers to Lilith’s original or primal state of Soul consciousness - being Soul centered. Gender is not an issue in that state of consciousness, and in fact, it only became as issue because of the patriarchal need to suppress women and all things associated with them, like the feminine flagship yin principle of nurture. For men, distortions to their primal nature can often be found here - as an atrophied expression of the yin principle of nurture within them, because that is what the patriarchy represses beginning in boyhood. The root of this distortion is the patriarchal consciousness of exclusion and dominance, the opposite of nurture.

To be Soul-centered “means to be imbued with virtue and from Its center one’s consciousness and power become intuitively guided to respond to life’s cues in accordance with Natural Laws. Being Soul-centered is the Way humans are designed to exist, one dwelling in harmony, balance, and spiritual kinship with all of the natural world.” During pre-patriarchal times, women and men, although sexually distinct, were not regarded as being too different otherwise. Each simply had natural roles within the group that served to maximize group survival. The intelligence determining its organizational structure reflected Natural Laws which created various routines and functions for each. Any calls for action were intuitively felt that naturally flowed out unobstructed from their Soul centers to guide their everyday lives. In today’s world, that natural flow is obstructed, which reflects the distortions and/or ignorance that each Soul possesses as a function of personal and collective involution which must be unraveled and evolved beyond in order to return to re-Center.

I am asking because I have many clients and people in my life who have the nodal axis of Leo/Aquarius who are non binary. There is an emphasis on both the masculine and feminine principles and unraveling of the undistorted version of both.

Unraveling the distorted versions of both involves finding ways to return to Center, to Soul. Analyzing the Lilith profile as well as Pluto’s signature for self-empowerment issues, especially of a sexual nature, will provide helpful insights. For instance, the non binary folks with Leo/Aquarius lunar nodes alive today and sexually active could have either Pluto in Virgo, Libra or Sagittarius. From the standpoint of patriarchal distortions, with Pluto in Virgo there could be an inner conflict between being a virgin or celibate and being sexually active, ie. being sexually active is wrong or impure. With Pluto in Libra, there could be issues regarding their social/sexual identity at odds with societal norms. With Pluto in Sagittarius, there could be conflict regarding their “different” sexual orientation because of patriarchal religious doctrines that condemn it, and so on...

Since sexuality is a problematic issue for these folks, one of the ways to get back to Center sexually is through natural sexuality. Natural sexuality teaches that its primary function, even reproductively, is about returning to Center, to Soul. This basic principle has been lost as a function of human involution during the recent world cycle, where the patriarchy demonized and repressed natural sexuality’s teachers, women. In pagan traditions as taught by women, natural sexuality at any level of evolution starts by having the proper inner orientation - of mutual respect and love, sincerity, sensitivity, and a sense of reciprocal partnership between lovers (as opposed to one-sided control and domination, a patriarchal power standard). For any sexual partners, non binary or heterosexual in today’s world, these same basic tenets apply. It reflects an approach that is in fact Soul-centered, not gender driven, whose truth should give these folks some comfort. Its actions arising from that Center reflect a fundamental principle underlying Natural Law - of unity versus division...an eternal wisdom always evoking a natural returning to center.

Since the emergence of the patriarchy and its perversion and overturning of natural sexual laws, so many Souls are reborn deeply traumatized sexually in some form or another. The current explosion of sexual orientations into such diversity reveals the depth of the damage and confusion that reflects this. The patriarchy’s subsequent and ongoing conditioning through the distortion of gender inequality and its prejudicial biased profiling sustains it. The past life damage while being either female or male, or both such as a hermaphrodite, creates the contours with experiences within the current life that allows for any sexual healing to occur. Whether female or male at birth, it would appear they want to liberate from all sexual stereotypes. In order to do so, they need absolute freedom to choose whatever gender orientation their Soul deems appropriate to heal through whatever gender pairing they are instinctively drawn towards through partnerships that extol understanding, sensitivity, compassion and love. No judgments, no bias, particularly from a societal standpoint one would hope, just compassionate, loving exchanges and support to allow whatever sexual healing needs to occur. The key point to remember in all this is that it’s about returning to Center, to Soul, and not about gender per se, although that part of their sexual consciousness may need some work to undo any damage.

As an aside, healing and recovering the Soul’s sexual powers to re-Center is essential for the full recovery of Lilith’s primal nature. Remaining Soul-centered while performing all human functions IS her signature corresponding to one’s primal nature. On the inner Tree of Life, sexuality is governed by the sacral lotus. Damage to this lotus, as I would suspect the majority of humans have, impedes the flow of consciousness necessary to be fully Soul-centered. Sexual healing is absolutely essential for its recovery in every human being, and by extension, for the welfare of the planet itself. The natural world needs Soul-centered humans to positively interact with it. Beyond this, rediscovering how to experience Soul centered states of consciousness becomes a critical function of the healing process that all Souls undergo in this part of the world cycle. The Soul must learn how to recenter Itself back into its native “we” consciousness through its now fully, individuated or “I” consciousness, including sexually.

Hoping some of this helps. If there are questions or any further clarification is needed, please let me know.

Goddess Blessings, Mary Blue

Mary,

I was wondering if I did the background on a male and posted his chart on this thread if we could go over the masculine and feminine energies within his chart utilizing Lilith? There is a man that fascinates me, but I am open to whomever. I was thinking of Anthony Bourdain. His Lilith is at 00° Gemini in the 10th, he is the Uranus conjunct Pluto in Virgo generation, his falling in his 2nd house. He ended up committing suicide, but I feel his chart could be utilized for understanding these principles. I am not sure if you know who he is, but he was one of the first men to speak up and out about the "me too" movement. He also was a spokesperson for many different cultures through utilizing his voice and writing. He was a chef turned journalist and had a few shows where he went to different countries and would speak on the cultural influences of food, but also brought a great deal of empathy with him and was able to allow people here in the states to experience different cultures through an honest lens. He was an alcoholic and an ex-heroin addict. I feel his chart would be very interesting to pull in Lilith as a way to look at the distortions and undistorted masculine. If you are up for it, I am willing to do the background on him and post his chart. Maybe Helena would be interested too. If you have another chart and soul in mind, I am for that as well. I would still be willing to do the background on that chart too. I have the time and am so fascinated by Lilith and looking at it in a man's chart. Let me know what you think, and also, no obligation.

Goddess Bless,

Jordyn

Hey All,

I can't post the background I did on Anothony because it is too long. Would it be okay to share links to interviews at that be sufficient enough? Then I can also post the chart and his Lilith info?

Much Love and Gratitude,

Jordyn

Hello All,

Here is some information on Anthony Bourdain, including his chart and some links to some of his interviews.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anthony Bourdain

25 June 1956

New York, New York 8:35 AM

Photo: ANGELA WEISSAFP/Getty Images

Author unknown but on Biography.com

Anthony Bourdain

Chef Anthony Bourdain moved out of the kitchen to become a bestselling author and award-winning TV personality, gaining wider fame with his unique culinary worldview.

(1956-2018)

Who Was Anthony Bourdain?

Anthony Bourdain first established his culinary career when he became the executive chef at Brasserie Les Halles. After his article "Don’t Read Before Eating This" appeared in The New Yorker to raves in 1997, Bourdain moved from one high-profile culinary project to the next, including TV shows A Cook’s Tour and Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations. He also wrote several books, including Kitchen Confidential: Adventures in the Culinary Underbelly. Bourdain was found dead in his hotel room in France on June 8, 2018, from a reported suicide.

Early Life and Kitchen Career

Born on June 25, 1956, in New York City, Anthony Bourdain was raised in suburban New Jersey, developing a devotion to literature and rock music. (His mother was a copy editor and his dad, a music executive.) Bourdain eventually attended Vassar College for two years and then graduated from the world-renowned Culinary Institute of America in 1978.

Later acknowledging self-destructive drug use during his youth, Bourdain soon began running the kitchens of New York restaurants such as the Supper Club, One Fifth Avenue and Sullivan's. He became executive chef at Brasserie Les Halles in 1998.

Culinary Writing

In 1997, The New Yorker published Bourdain's now famous article "Don’t Eat Before Reading This," a scathingly honest look at the inner workings of restaurants, specifically their kitchens. With his credibility as a renowned chef, the article carried much weight and led to other writing projects. In 2000, his bestselling book Kitchen Confidential: Adventures in the Culinary Underbelly, a vast expansion of the New Yorker article that highlighted Bourdain's sometimes rough disposition, came out to great popularity.

A Cook's Tour: Global Adventures in Extreme Cuisines, an account of exotic food and his travel exploits around the world, followed in 2001. The book was written in connection to his first TV series, A Cook’s Tour, which debuted a year later and aired until 2003.

The 2000s: TV Successes and More Bestsellers

In 2002, Bourdain started his two-season run on the Food Network’s A Cook’s Tour, a series featuring Bourdain traveling the world seeking culinary adventures. In 2004, Bourdain released Anthony Bourdain’s Les Halles Cookbook: Strategies, Recipes, and Techniques of Classic Bistro Cooking, and in 2006, The Nasty Bits. Both books went on to become New York Times bestsellers.

In 2005, Bourdain premiered a new Travel Channel series, Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations, which explored similar themes as A Cook’s Tour. The show ran for nine seasons, ending in 2012, and enjoyed a wide audience while winning two Primetime Emmy Awards for its cinematography. Also in 2005, because of the huge popularity of Kitchen Confidential, Fox aired a short-lived sitcom based on the book. The character "Jack Bourdain" was loosely based on Anthony and was portrayed by then up-and-coming actor Bradley Cooper.

Other Ventures

Bourdain also appeared as guest judge on the Top Chef reality cooking competition show several times, and was one of the main judges on the eighth season of Top Chef All-Stars.

Always up for a new experience, Bourdain appeared in an episode of reality show Miami Ink, on which he received a skull tattoo. He also had a brief cameo in the 2008 movie Far Cry and appeared on the children's TV show Yo Gabba Gabba! as Dr. Tony. He served as a writer and consultant for the series Treme as well.

Bourdain’s next book, Medium Raw: A Bloody Valentine to the World of Food and the People Who Cook, was released in 2010. He also published crime fiction as well as a 2001 historical account of Typhoid Mary and the 2013 graphic novel Get Jiro!

Bourdain returned to series television in 2013 with Anthony Bourdain: Parts Unknown, which again examined specific dining rituals across the globe. The show won four Emmys, with three consecutive wins from 2013-15 for Outstanding Informational Series or Special. In 2015, the culinary expert also announced the development of a giant food hall in Manhattan, New York, to be dubbed Bourdain Market.

Personal Life and Daughter

Having been married previously for almost two decades, in 2007, Bourdain wed jujitsu expert Ottavia Busia. They became parents to daughter Ariane that year.

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In September 2016, the couple announced their plans to divorce, citing that their decision was mutual and amicable. Bourdain subsequently developed a relationship with Italian actress and director Asia Argento.

Death

Bourdain was found dead in his hotel room in Kaysersberg, France, on June 8, 2018, after committing suicide. He was in the area working on an episode of his Parts Unknown series.

"It is with extraordinary sadness we can confirm the death of our friend and colleague, Anthony Bourdain," CNN said in a statement. "His love of great adventure, new friends, fine food and drink and the remarkable stories of the world made him a unique storyteller. His talents never ceased to amaze us and we will miss him very much. Our thoughts and prayers are with his daughter and family at this incredibly difficult time."

Two weeks later, a toxicology report revealed that no narcotics were found in Bourdain's body. Around that time, it was announced that a biography of him was in the works. Described as "an authorized portrait of the writer, veteran chef and television traveler, built from stories shared by those who knew him best," the bio was scheduled to be edited by Bourdain's long-time assistant, Laurie Woolever, and published in the fall of 2019. Continuing the posthumous recognition, the Television Academy Foundation announced that Parts Unknown had earned six nominations for the 70th Primetime Emmy Awards, to air on September 17, 2018. In August, CNN said that Parts Unknown producers had enough material to deliver one final season of the show. Although only one episode would feature Bordain's narration, his voice would be heard throughout the series thanks to on-location audio of his trips to New York City's Lower East Side, the Texas-Mexico border area, Spain and Indonesia. A CNN executive said the penultimate episode would feature cast and crew members discussing their experiences on the show, with the finale focusing on "how Tony affected the world." QUOTES

• I never did an apprenticeship in a truly great restaurant kitchen. As a result, I never got really good as a chef. I wonder what it would have been like to have apprenticed with a Michel Bras or Arzak. No serious regrets, though. Things have turned out pretty damned good.

• I got off of heroin in the 1980s. Friends of mine from the ‘70s and ‘80s, they just got off five, six, maybe 10 years ago. And we’re the lucky ones. We made it out alive. There are a lot of guys that didn’t get that far.

• Eventually, I would like to become an Italian patriarch. I would sit in my garden and make bad wine, growing peppers and tomatoes.

• Anthony and the “Me Too Movemont” By Sandra Gonzalez, CNN

In the eight months since the #MeToo movement resurfaced, the women coming forward with spectrum-spanning stories of mistreatment found an ally in a man that had previously been more associated with food than feminism. But Anthony Bourdain, who died Friday at age 61, was quick to admit that his passion for advocating on behalf of victims of sexual misconduct and harassment came from a personal place.

Bourdain’s girlfriend, Asia Argento, was among the first women to publicly accuse disgraced movie mogul Harvey Weinstein of rape. (Weinstein has previously denied all accusations of “non-consensual sex” and pleaded not guilty days ago to three felony charges unrelated to Argento’s accusations.)

“I stand unhesitatingly and unwaveringly with the women,” Bourdain wrote in December 2017. “Not out of virtue, or integrity, or high moral outrage –  as much as I’d like to say so  – but because late in life, I met one extraordinary woman with a particularly awful story to tell, who introduced me to other extraordinary women with equally awful stories.”

Bourdain and Argento, an actress and filmmaker, met while filming an episode of his CNN show, “Parts Unknown,” in Rome.

When stories began emerging in the food world – “a brutal, oppressive business that was historically unfriendly to women,” Bourdain once said – he remained steadfast in his dedication to believing and listening to women.

“Look, no matter how much I admire someone or respected their work, I’m pretty much Ming the Merciless on this issue right now,” he told “Daily Show” host Trevor Noah. “I’m not in a forgiving state of mind. I mean, that sh** ain’t OK.”

The movement, Bourdain said, had caused him to start “reexamining” his past.

“I look back, like, I hope, a lot of men in that industry and say – not so much ‘what did I do or not do?’ – but ‘what did I see and what did I let slide? What did I not notice?’” he said.

Bourdain also joked of his 2000 book, “Kitchen Confidential”: “I wrote sort of the meathead bible for restaurant employees and chefs.” (Bourdain earlier this year noted that he had not been part of the restaurant business in nearly 20 years.)

As part of his role as a male ally to the movement, Bourdain was particularly critical of those who he perceived to be misguided on the issues relating to #MeToo and remained pessimistic about people’s ability to change.

“I think, unfortunately, it’s unrealistic to expect people who have been in the business a long time – men, in particular – to change their hearts and minds. …I would hope that they do, but I’m just not that optimistic about the human race,” he told CNN’s Poppy Harlow in an interview on “New Day.”

He added: “What we are learning now is that to stay silent has a real cost. …You will be asked what you did when you saw this. Whether you have a good heart or not, I think the reality of the situation in this rapidly changing field is that people will be forced to do the right thing.”

Bourdain himself once wrote that “in these current circumstances, one must pick a side.” He’d clearly chosen his.

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Bourdain Confidential "I find, again and again, just by spending the time, by asking very simple questions, people have said the most astonishing things to me." Published onJul 15, 2018 6:00PM EDT

Maria Bustillos @mariabustillosSee more

on Travel.

I like the idea of inspiring or encouraging people to get a passport and go have their own adventures. I’m a little worried when I bump into people, and it happens a lot—“We went to Vietnam, and we went to all the places you went.” Okay that’s great, because I like those people and I like that noodle lady, and I’m glad they’re getting the business, and it pleases me to think that they’re getting all these American visitors now.

But on the other hand, you know, I much prefer people who just showed up in Paris and found their own way without any particular itinerary, who left themselves open to things happening. To mistakes. To mistakes, because that’s the most important part of travel. The shit you didn’t plan for, and being able to adapt and receive that information in a useful way instead of saying, like, “Oh, goddamnit, they ran out of tickets at the Vatican!” or whatever, “That line at the Eiffel Tower is you know, six hours!” and then sulk for the rest of the day.

on Journalism and Interviewing.

The worst thing about North American journalism is its insularity: the feeling that the United States is the world. And this is true even of the New York Times; nothing comes from the perspective of other places…

Or anyone outside of Timesland.

Yeah! Exactly… and that kind of feeds into the materialism that brought us to this point politically. So… I’ve always seen you as somebody who made the world bigger for people, and who is kind of immune to questions of status … you will find the coolest person in the room no matter where you go, and it’s not about wealth or titles or status; that person might be a grandma, or a plumber. So if we could democratize how people look at the world now, given that the U.S. finds itself in this… position, how are we gonna do that?

One of the things I’ve started noticing on my shows and through my experience was… [say] you go to a place like Beirut, and you find yourself talking to a Muslim woman. If you’re a journalist tasked with an agenda, you know, you’re there to report a story, and you come right out with it. You’re going right into some very difficult areas. Whereas I have the luxury, I’m there to eat! Presumably. I’m there to eat, and I’m asking very simple questions.

What makes you happy? What do you like to eat, where do you like to go to get a few drinks; you know? What do you miss about the place when you go away? And I find, again and again, just by spending the time, by asking very simple questions, people have said the most astonishing things to me. Often things that would be very uncomfortable for them outside of that casual context; things that we’ve had to edit out of the show, that might come back to bite them.

I’m going to suggest something to you about that. As you know I read all your books, lol.

I was really impressed by that, by the way.

I’m telling you. Wellll… when [it was assigned] to me I didn’t know quite how many there were.

[both guffaw]

Sorry about that.

No no, it was very enjoyable. Okay though. You can say you want to relate to somebody on a human level. How do you achieve that?

There’s a classic police interrogation method that I didn’t knowingly adopt, but I realized over time that I was doing it. I will talk a lot about myself in scenes. I’ll go on and on, telling about… looking for ways to disarm them, by basically, telling them things about myself that might be painful or embarrassing. We later edit all of that out; it’s all about getting them to a point where they feel free to say something. Or I’ll ask a procession of really stupid questions, you know, in the hopes that they’re going to give me a smart answer. And then you just hold your breath and listen.

So what I meant to ask… there’s a scene in Gone Bamboo where you’re trying to get in the methadone program.

Mmhmm.

And your character’s trying to disarm the man in charge in so much like what you’re saying. As if… this might be part of your character, you like getting into someone’s mind. Would you say that’s your character?

Well… I have a New Yorker’s tendency to reveal a lot more than is necessary about themselves, in general? So we’re used to it in ways that maybe other cultures, in other cities, are definitely not.

But… I’m thinking of a Muslim woman, a refugee from Lebanon, who started to talk about her sexual awakening. She started out with talking about how horrible it was to have to flee her home country, but she discovered her bisexuality; she talked very frankly about this whole sexual awakening during wartime and it was this astonishing thing; to protect her, we didn’t use much of it.

This happens a lot. People will suddenly get to a place… there’s often alcohol involved. This is very important, you’ve established something by accepting their food, whatever it might be, without any judgement or expressions like, uhhhhhh I don’t know!—or any skepticism with it; the fact that with an open mind and heart you are visibly grateful and appreciative of what is offered to you, even if very poor or by our standards, very unusual.

on Work.

Do you ever stop?

No.

You don’t… you just go from thing to thing.

Yes.

I wondered about this; I’ve stopped wondering. I’d entertained the notion that I’m working toward a goal, or a day, where I could sit on a Tuscan hilltop in a hammock with a big stack of books, but I understand now that I couldn’t… that I can’t do that. I can do that for short periods of time. But I can’t. I can’t.

It’s helped me a lot that Asia is the same way. That there’s no shame in this, you know… She’ll point out the ridiculousness of kicking back on the beach, because she’ll say right up front… “This doesn’t appeal to me at all! This is a living death.”

I can’t do it. I can do it for a few days at a time.

But you don’t even just work! You move, and move…

Like I’ll finish a book or something like, an entire season of the show? And I’ll look at the calendar and realize I have three weeks of nothing, which… seemed like a really good idea for the rest of the year. But during that period immediately after unburdening myself of this pile of frantic work—that’s when I go into a panic and I start overcommitting to a lot of projects, maybe comfortably removed from that date but I do suddenly feel like: What do I do now?

I need deadlines, I need pressure, I need my mind to be working.

on Luxury.

Your world is not explicitly materialist; I think that’s a lot of why you’re a role model for really young people, like in their twenties. That cohort is not looking to go out and get an MBA, it seems to me.

But still, there’s a lot of luxury in your world. I watched you eat ortolans. And I was so excited because I’ve read about it a hundred times, but also: this is bad! You know… these luxury things, this entire edifice is built up so that very few people can enjoy it.

Right. But… it’s not a luxury, though it is, so much as a rarity. It’s not a thing as much as it’s an experience.

I’m not materialist… look, I like expensive plumbing, I like a really nice hotel room, especially after I’ve been staying in some really rough ones. The way I acquire things has really changed over the years; maybe that’s a function of age, and two marriages. I know very much what won’t make me happy. The perfect car will not make me happy. The perfect house will probably make me sad, and terrified.

Please elaborate on that… why?

Well, because… a house is a commitment, you know? You have to take care of it. It’s like any beautiful thing you have to maintain and protect. And then you also have to consider who gets it after you’re gone. And so even books and records, which I… books in particular, I have a lot of books that I really love. When I acquire one that I really love it’s difficult for me, because I think about… who does one pass this on to?

Even works of art, things like that; who will appreciate it the same way? You cannot take it with you. You know?

Apparently.

As much as I look at houses sometimes and think wow, that would be really nice, if that were my house, I know that I would be miserable. It would be… cleaning out the… the gutters, and you know, what about the pipes freezing, and if you own a home it means you have to vacation in the same place every year. I’m a renter by nature. I like the freedom to change my mind about where I want to be in six months, or a year. Because I’ve also found you might have to make that decision… you can’t always make that decision for yourself, you know… shit happens.

If you travel even a little bit you realize straightaway that you are insanely rich. Like anyone, what we call “middle class,” you’re insanely rich.

Yup.

I felt especially complicit in the whole materialist clusterfuck that caused this to happen after the election, like the incrementalism I’d so long believed in was just a way to stay selfishly real comfortable. But I still feel like I want there to be beautiful things in the world… expensive things, even.

I don’t feel complicit; I think money is shit. You know… how much you spend on a thing… If I spend a couple thousand dollars on sushi for two, I don’t feel guilty about that. I do find that my happiest moments on the road are not standing on the balcony of a really nice hotel. That’s a sort of bittersweet—if not melancholy—alienating experience, at best. My happiest moments on the road are always off-camera, generally with my crew, coming back from shooting a scene and finding ourselves in this sort of absurdly beautiful moment, you know, laying on a flatbed on those things that go on the railroad track, with a putt-putt motor, goin’ across like, the rice paddies in Cambodia with headphones on… this is luxury, because I could never have imagined having the freedom or the ability to find myself in such a place, looking at such things.

To sit alone or with a few friends, half-drunk under a full moon, you just understand how lucky you are; it’s a story you can’t tell. It’s a story you almost by definition, can’t share. I’ve learned in real time to look at those things and realize: I just had a really good moment.

on #MeToo

You were a hero to so many women, so thank you for that.

No really and truly not at all, I’m just a guy who saw what his girlfriend and her friends uh… you know. I saw a lot.

There’s a lot of men of your generation and mine, which is about the same, we grew up in a time—this thing is really complicated for someone my age. My generation struggled for the right to say Yes. I grew up in a really repressive world.

So… I watch this and I just worry that they’re gonna get themselves in a place where they Victorianize this thing.

Asia feels very strongly that you know, a puritanical or Victorian focus would be a monstrous outcome, um, you know, we have the Deneuve letter and all; it’s really tough finding the middle ground here.

It’s so upsetting, it’s so damaging, the Deneuve thing, I couldn’t believe it.

I grew up sort of you know in a really post-hippie time, you know, where people were learning to say yes. You know, I went to a women’s university, surrounded by women, I started my career in Provincetown which is 90% gay, and whatever mentality or ethos existed in my early kitchens, most of which were in the West Village (an important distinction) it was very, yes, it was very sexually liberated, everybody slept with everybody, but it was also not a thing—you don’t hit on women, not because of any ethical consideration, but because that wasn’t cool! that was just not—that what the football team did.

Gross people did.

It was something gross people did, the clownish bad guy did.

I was there, you don’t have to tell me.

I didn’t really experience the bad kitchens until the Rainbow Room. And then at some point, shit did turn, and I’m sure I missed it.

You know a lot of the chefs, all of the really bastard chefs, most the really oppressive ones, the old school ones, were abused children, were abused by their parents, were abused and neglected, physically, mentally, in every possible way, and then became just like their abuser, and would perpetuate the system.

A lot of chefs never really understood, or understood only really belatedly; they’d been powerless for much of their careers. I don’t know. For most of my career, chefs were creatures without power. To talk about power imbalance, is… in retrospect, there was one. But I think we all saw ourselves at outcasts, as weak, except in our little bubble in the kitchen.

I love your writing about that, the pirate ship. It’s fun.

I’ve given away all the royalties to the book.

To whom?

I don’t wanna say… to various, deserving people. I don’t want that on my… I’ve gotten enough out of that book.

That’s very touching.

[laughing]

No, I’m just freeing myself.

on Hidden Forces.

There are forces out there who are really fucking powerful and scary. I had dinner with Rose McGowan, and Rose is telling me you know, these people are spying on me, people are saying they’re my friends and they’re in fact not my friends, they’re paid intelligence operatives, and I remember thinking look, I support you all the way, but in the back of my head I’m thinking, I dunno, I’m not so sure about this, and then a minute later this nightmarish…

It was true! You know… I covered the Gawker trial in St. Petersburg. We had no clue that Peter Thiel was paying for that shit. There were a million journalists there! All this Hulk Hogan nonsense. We did not know what we were looking at.

I have come to understand, traveling around the world, I see good people crushed randomly under the wheel or by bad things, all the time. As I see it happen to friends… not to be too paranoid, but I think they’re doing a very effective job on Rose… I don’t know when the truth is enough anymore!

on Money.

Do you think of yourself as an artist?

No. I do not.

Really?!

No. I am spoiled, in that… from the very beginning I’ve always and only made the television I wanted to make, and as soon as I could I told whoever was involved to go fuck themselves, and somehow landed on my feet someplace else, with somebody who was willing to indulge me in even grander fashion. So I haven’t had to deal with the grim reality of well, you either do the Best Burgers in America show, or you have no work at all! I haven’t had to live with that. I haven’t had to be particularly nice to people I don’t like. Ever.

I really and truly don’t have conversations on the phone ever, in my business life, with people who I don’t like and respect. Nobody calls me up on the phone who’s an asshole, where I roll my eyes and say uuhhhh I have have to talk to them or I have to kiss their ass. I’ve been ridiculously free of that kind of thing that everybody else in the world has to deal with as a reality. I mean you got kids. That’s everybody’s reality. But it is not mine.

Wow it’s true, you are this weirdo unicorn weird… guy.

Yeah.

Well… it’s working out great. Okay so… I want like young people to read what we’re talking about and be able to find new ways to look at the world and interact with it that don’t have to do with all the bullshit. And you know how to do that, or, people think you know how to do that. Like they think that you can just land in a city, and go meet the people, and interact with them on a human level, and I think that’s the future of the world, that we don’t have to care about nations or boundaries or passports or whatever. We could just eat together, we could just be together. We could just talk together.

I think a recognition that you’re almost always the stupidest person in the room when you venture out of your comfort zone, respect for that clear certainty. if you’re in Beirut, you don’t know what’s going on? Uh, the willingness to walk in other people’s shoes, the sense of perspective… wonder.

What’s that?

It’s a way to look at things and say, wow.

Why would you say wow? What’s underneath that?

When you see people, again and again, how much they can do with very little, how people struggle and persist, you know… Look, I believe in some basic virtues, you know? Mercy, humility, curiosity, empathy. They sound quaint now, but—

No, this is happening every minute.

No, they are quaint now. We live in a world where we cannot, if you’re running for political office, you cannot admit to speaking a second language, extensive travel, or a familiarity with arugula.

Poor John Kerry.

But how do you travel the world? You know, you said earlier, the more you travel the more you look inwards. Mark Twain said travel is fatal to prejudice. You try to put yourself in a place where you can see things, and let things happen. Where you’re not always in charge, you’re not in control, [you need a] willingness to go with the flow, and understand, you know, you’re in somebody else’s house, somebody else’s country. You’re not in charge.

By virtue of being an American with a passport, you already, you’ve got your exit card. You can hit the emergency parachute at any time. That’s enough.

Like the letters of transit in Casablanca. My father said this amazing thing to me… he was from Venezuela, and had grown up around the crazy Latin American politics. And he like found a copy of Capital in my room and really hit the roof. He goes, if they don’t let the people out of a country, there’s a problem.

You know, so I became a leftist anyhow. But I have sat across from a lot of white guys telling me about the literacy rate in Cuba, and you know, the number of times I’ve had to say look, if all they let you read is Fidel’s fucking speeches, that’s like not okay.

No. I despise communism as much as, at least as much as I despise our system. Worse.

We need a new book! Why don’t we have a new book? Why are we still talking about books from the 19th century?

Because we cannot choose the leaders of our revolutions, they’re all deeply flawed and they will all—all revolutions will be corrupted. That’s something we have to be vigilant…

Have you seen Mother? I would see it. Because it’s very much about, it’s about the Bible, it’s a biblical allegory, but it’s very much about… it’s like the #MeToo movement. It starts out as this wonderful thing, and it becomes a monstrosity.

Look, the minute everybody in the room agrees with you, you’re in a bad place, so I’m a big believer in change just for its own sake, just to show that you can change, to move forward incrementally, but ain’t nobody gonna make everything better. Whoever has the intestinal fortitude or the megalomaniac instincts, uh, sufficient to lead any kind of a revolution will inevitably disappoint horribly.

There’s never been any evidence other than this.

The best revolutionaries of course are martyrs who died before they could turn into disgusting, self-serving, corrupt pieces of shit. As they all do.

I know! Okay, let’s forget that then. Forget dogma, a cookbook for how things should be. Like what do we do for these kids? Can we help them? At all?

No.

Woahhh. Really?

I don’t think so.

Wowwww.

Asia said this to me. Children create themselves independently of us. All you can do is show, like in my case, my daughter feels loved. She knows she’s loved. She has good self-esteem. Very important. And good martial arts skills. So no man, no boy—

Oh, can get the better of her.

—she knows she can take any boy in her age group. That’s all I can do as a father. I can’t pick all of the things that, you know. I can’t. She so far… ahead of me, I can’t pick her music, her boyfriends, whatever, however she’s going to turn out. I can give her these basic things.

How old now?

Ten. But… I think how resolute she is, how much she wants to change the world, is willing to sacrifice in order to change the world, that’s gonna have to come from within. In fact, you know Skolnik on his Twitter feed, he’s been indoctrinating his son Mateo Ali—this poor kid is like, three—“See honey? This is our homosexual friend, you know, it’s okayyy, you know, there’s two mommies! Mateo and I were in the demonstration today for Hillary Clinton.”

The kid’s fucking four! It’s like, come on man, let the kid alone. Let him have a childhood! Let him make a decision! Trust your child, give him love, faith, and talk about smart shit in front of him. They’ll turn out okay. Trying to make a mini-me… it sickens me.

I know. It’s depressing.

“I came home tonight and started to explain to Mateo about Black Lives Matter.” You know, the kid’s fuckin’ four!

Can I just tell you something, your interest in this man is unhealthy.

I know. There are a few other Twitter feeds that I’m like… I’m paralyzed with horror.

What are the other ones?

Sarah Nicole Prickett… who is really, really smart! I tried to get her to write a book a few years ago, I read some really incredible thing about like Joan Didion that she wrote, it was fuckin’ amazing.

I’m a Paulette. Don’t bring me your Joan Didion.

I’m a big Didion fan.

No, you are wrong.

All right. I accept this. [laughing] I made a list of writers I like and somebody said “Where are the women writers?” and I’d said, Patricia Highsmith and Joan Didion! And somebody said, “They don’t count.” “They don’t count as women”—?! Anyway.

[Prickett] just writes about fashion and like, it’s the most self-involved twitter feed by a really smart person that drives me out of my mind. Disproportionate to the offense.

Ludo Lefebvre. Do you follow him on Instagram? Do you follow his wife? His wife like, French chef wife I think, she, she IGs her kids, very curated style.

I forget, I’m like, ahh there are a few other…

People go crazy on their kids. Like their babies. What are they doing all day? Nobody gets a chance to eat lunch in the house because there’s a picture of the baby every 25 seconds.

Yeah. I never put my daughter’s face up on anything. Ever. She don’t need that shit.

Well… you really have to think about that.

Her mama… her mom is awesome. It’s obvious like, you know, beyond helicopter mom. Italian parenting is very different from American parenting. You know in America, your kid wanders over to an open window, and you go, honey, don’t go near the window, it’s dangerous, you might get hurt.

Italian parenting is saying, “Don’t go near the window, you’ll fall out the window, you’ll break your neck, you’ll die, and you’ll never see your parents again.” “Don’t go near the stove, you’ll catch fire, all your hair will burn off, you’ll die, and you’ll be bald.”

I’m like, you’re traumatizing me! The kid’s four! But it worked.

She puts her money where her mouth is. Very strong mom but you know, a mom who believes that this is an evil world that you should be militarily prepared for. So don’t put your face on Instagram, because bad men will come and cut off your pee-pee parts and your ears and send them to your parents. Fucking hell!

on Competition.

The worst thing Asia ever said to me, she’d had a bad day, she was doing a play in uh, Turin? Somewhere in Italy. And she was rehearsing and she’d had a really bad day with the director. Dude, of course. And she comes home and she’s fucking furious. And we’re texting back and forth, cause we only argue by text. She’s like, fucking angry. Fuck you too! You always wanna win! You always wanna win!

I was really offended by this. I was so hurt by this. I do not need to win. I am not a competitive person. I need to survive.

Were you ever?

Never. Sports, fucking hated them. Always hated sports. Again, it goes back to that Sixties thing… I just wanna fucking survive. I don’t need to be number one. I don’t need to beat the fuck out of somebody. I don’t need to be ahead. I just want to still be here at the end of the fuckin’ day, doing what I’m doing, without anybody hassling me.

And you said that…

Yeah!

And?

And well, it was true, so. I’m not like the other guys.

[laughing]

Yeah you’re really not.

I’m not. I really don’t need to win.

Bourdain wrote about suicidal despair twice, to my knowledge. The first time was in his second crime novel, Gone Bamboo (1997) in which the philosopher-hit man Henry Denard finds himself in deep trouble with the mob, who’ve caught up with him on the island of Saint Martin.

Curiously, he wrote the same scene a second time, in a memoir, the 2010 Medium Raw; it had really happened. But the memoir relates the scene happening about eight years after the novel was published—in 2005 or 2006, after the crash of his first marriage to Nancy Putkoski, the high school sweetheart whom he’d followed to Vassar.

Bad manners!? His manners were immaculate.

Bourdain was a very private man but there were things about him that could be intimated from his work. One of these things being that the real person, the man underneath, was troubled in some secret way, and that he needed to hide that trouble, to dress it up for public consumption.

I wonder whether this is not just one more bad thing about exceptionalism, the thing we are in fact not really getting away from. Parachuting in to enjoy the hole in the wall is still parachuting in. What if you still end up in the good hotel, the big house, the apartment on the 60th floor? Maybe it’s the exceptional, special people with no faults, the people who have to perform “authenticity” flawlessly, all the time, for everyone, who are, who must be, the most troubled of all.

Did anyone ever ask him what that moment meant, or when it really happened? I wanted to, but I felt constrained, like it would be intrusive and rude to ask: Did you really almost drive off the edge of an unbanked road in Saint Martin? When? Why? How many times did you think about killing yourself? I think maybe your real friends knew something about that, but maybe not enough.

Even now with all I knew and have learned, I could believe anything about this gifted, passionate man’s death. Outrageous stories of every description came out after the reports of his suicide in an Alsatian hotel, and I could believe any one of them. I could believe that he was taken out by a hostile government or by some political enemy. That he just judged himself very hard one night and chose deliberately to end it. That he had a wild moment of uncontrollable panic. That he had a broken heart. Any of these things, or none of them.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One of Anthony’s last interviews:

(This one is fascinating and gives a great understanding of whom he is) :

Anthony Bourdain - Our Last Full Interview | Fast Company - YouTube

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anthony’s Lilith is 2° 21’ Taurus

South Node of Lilith is 25° 00’ Gemini

North Node of Lilith is 15° 16’ Sagittarius

Given the title of this thread I want to post rather than creating a new one -- My question is: does EA recognize a masculine archetype (such as Mars, for instance, or the Sun?) as one that exemplifies a natural and undistorted expression? While I can appreciate the perspective on lilith and her role, it would be useful, especially for male clients, to have an actual masculine archetype to draw from and relate to. In gratitude, Sarah

Greetings Jordyn, Helena and all,

Many thanks to you both for your kind support and desire to team up to continue with this thread. Your passion for this work is inspiring as is your gift and talent for EA astrology itself. You are both naturals! Again, I am so honored and grateful. I understand Helena that you are busy for a bit and will contribute when time allows. So thanks for that. At any time, your contributions of course will be highly valued and appreciated.

As for doing Lilith through the houses, it seems best to simply maintain this thread, keeping the focus on how Lilith operates, irrespective of gender, given that she represents the guardian of the human Soul's root as true nature for both. As shown through A. Bourdain's chart analysis, her archetype is impactful for either, bringing into focus the harsh reality of patriarchal conditioning upon the Soul's true nature, the struggle and accomplishment that results by remaining steadfast and self-determined (Capricorn) to overcome all obstacles and actualize her.

If its okay with you, I would like to start by putting together and presenting on the thread the fundamentals for Lilith which I offer to anyone interested as a guide for interpretative purposes. I can have that ready to post in a day or two.

Besides covering the house archetypes, I thought it would be useful to also include their distortions, anything projected upon the Soul because of gender caused by patriarchal conditioning that violates or suppresses true nature. Additionally, perhaps touching upon the various roles men and women might perform as a reflection of true nature and Natural Law in pre-patriarchal and contemporary times (to bring it all up to speed) for each house expression. Do you feel that would be useful also?

Looking forward to your reply and to Lilith's journey through the houses for the undistorted masculine with you both and all interested others.

With much love and the Goddess' Blessings

Hello to All,

Just a quick timely reference to a great example of the undistorted masculine, in the soul of the special counsel Jack Smith, that yesterday announced the indictement of Trump.

Jack Smith was born June 5 1969 (time unknown) and has natal lilith in aries conjunct lucifer and venus in aries! Ruler mars is rx in Sag. which is then ruled by jupiter new phase conjucntion to pluto, jupiter is also exact to the south node of the moon and conjunct uranus, all in virgo. We cannot make this stuff up for somenone who quite literally is fighting evil with truth! And who took his own time to deliver it (mars rx).

It's just amazing to see Lilith in real time, real life, just happening. I have seen his chart a few months before, can't remember exactly when in the process, but a special date and notice how his lilith/lucifer/venus was being activated. And of course, yesterday lilith had just finished her very long stay in virgo, and conjuncted all his virgo planets, yesterday exact at his uranus at 29 virgo. How cool is this?!?

It's a very interesting chart to see relative to all these examples. Courageous soul!

Just wished to say that (and honour this great example of the natural masculine).

Goddess Blessings,

Helena

Hello all,

Check this out everyone!

This is Awesome.

Even the female Prime Minister was on strike ~ Lilith in Action!

Canada to have first majority-female supreme court following nomination

Justin Trudeau appoints Mary Moreau to bench of Canada’s top court, which will be made up of five women and four men

Justin Trudeau has nominated the Alberta judge Mary Moreau to Canada’s top court, setting up the first majority-female bench in the supreme court’s 148-year history.

The naming of Moreau will give Canada’s top court five female judges and four male judges. Moreau was most recently the chief justice of Alberta’s superior court, and has worked in that court for 29 years. She will fill a vacancy on the supreme court created by the resignation of Russell Brown in June.

Born in Edmonton, Alberta, Moreau has practiced criminal law, constitutional law and civil litigation after studying at the University of Alberta and the Université de Sherbrooke in Quebec.

“A glass ceiling shattered,” Canada’s justice minister, Arif Virani, said on X, formerly known as Twitter, noting that Moreau’s appointment will give the supreme court bench a majority of women for the first time in its history.

Trudeau has made Canada’s top court more diverse with his recent appointments. In June 2021, Mahmud Jamal became the first judge of color to sit on the supreme court, and a year later Michelle O’Bonsawin became the first Indigenous person to join it.

“Throughout her impressive judicial career, Mary T Moreau has remained dedicated to fairness and excellence – and that’s why, today, I’m announcing her nomination to the supreme court of Canada,” Trudeau tweeted.

Eligible candidates were shortlisted by an independent, nonpartisan advisory board and handed to Trudeau, according to a statement from the prime minister’s office.

The candidates needed to have the ability to work in both official languages, English and French. To fill the current vacancy, the appointment needed to be from western Canada or northern Canada to meet regional representation requirements.

A Hindu Goddess Festival Where Indian Progressivism Is Alive and Well

A huge religious carnival shows that India remains a country of diverse political and social beliefs, despite the right-wing national government’s dominance.

By Suhasini Raj

Oct. 25, 2023

Purbasha Roy held her 9-year-old daughter’s hand and pointed toward the towering art installation: blooming pink buds symbolizing embryos, menstrual cups shaped to form a bouquet, fallopian tubes descending from corners of the ceiling.

The work, part of a makeshift pavilion to worship the Hindu goddess Durga, was designed to break taboos in India about menstruation. And it had a clear target: A half-man, half-bull demon at Durga’s feet, an organizer explained to Ms. Roy and others, represented the “moral police” — India’s patriarchal society.

The pavilion was one of hundreds, many politically pointed, that dotted Kolkata during a five-day festival called the Durga Puja, an event that brings this muggy, sleepy city alive each year as if jolted by a high-voltage current. Part Mardi Gras, part Christmas, the festival, which ended on Tuesday, is the most important religious celebration for Hindus in this part of eastern India.

From the dense warrens of old Kolkata to the city’s parks and apartment compounds, the makeshift pavilions, many of them wildly elaborate and colorful, feature handmade idols of the three-eyed goddess Durga, her 10 arms splayed out. The goddess, clutching a spear and a club, embodies both martial prowess and gentle motherliness — the victory of good over evil.

Over the past few years, the festival pavilions have morphed from traditional works of art to high-tech installations representing progressive ideas, even as Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s right-wing Bharatiya Janata Party has tightened its grip on India.

The themes this year included the hardships faced by auto-rickshaw drivers; child labor and trafficking and the sexual abuse of young girls; and the suffering in the Indian state of Manipur, where Mr. Modi has been accused of indifference amid deadly ethnic warfare. An installation of a crying mountain symbolized the ravages of climate change. Social workers invited five female victims of acid attacks to a pavilion on the subject.

The pavilions carried the message that India remains a nation of diverse beliefs, with resistance to the B.J.P. and its push for Hindu homogeneity still alive and well outside the party’s stronghold in populous and relatively impoverished North India.

The B.J.P. has struggled to break into the eastern Bengal region, a leftist bastion where Kolkata is the cultural heart. The state of West Bengal, which long had a Communist government, is now led by the Trinamool Congress, a center-left secular party.

Tapati Guha-Thakurta, a historian who has traced the development of traditional worship to its contemporary manifestations and helped get the festival on UNESCO’s list of intangible cultural heritage of humanity in 2021, said the event played an important role in Kolkata’s “sociocultural and political scene.”

The state’s chief minister, Mamata Banerjee, has used the festival to “highlight her governance and project a secular outlook,” Ms. Guha-Thakurta said. The B.J.P., she added, has offered its “brawny North Indian Hindutva,” or Hindu nationalism, as a contrast before a general election next year.

A festival pavilion installed by a local B.J.P. politician, Sajal Ghosh, featured an imposing replica of a Hindu temple being constructed at the site of a destroyed mosque in Ayodhya, a highly charged symbol that Hindus and Muslims have clashed over for decades.

The temple, dedicated to Lord Ram, is a core ideological issue of the Hindu right wing, and its expected opening early next year is likely to be a main religious talking point for Mr. Modi and his party before the election. Hindu nationalists have increasingly embraced the male god Ram and cast him as warlike, in contrast to the diverse expression of Hinduism around other deities outside North India, with the goddess Durga being the main one in Bengal.

On Saturday, Mr. Ghosh shook hands with onlookers and shouted “Jai Shri Ram,” or “Hail Lord Ram” — a frequent right-wing war cry against religious minorities — in a bid to rouse the crowds. The same chant also blared from loudspeakers.

Thousands of men, women and children, their sweaty bodies pressed against one another, jostled for space to click selfies with the temple replica as the backdrop. Mr. Ghosh, who had traveled to Ayodhya to get exact measurements, said those selfies, sure to be shared far and wide, are “my prize.”

Jawhar Sircar, a member of Parliament representing the Trinamool Congress, said that the B.J.P. did not understand the syncretic culture of Bengal, a region that remains Hindu and follows a social structure of “giving freedom to women.”

“The B.J.P. suffers from what we call the homogenization fever,” Mr. Sircar said. “They feel that the whole of India must be in that homogenic line of a central worship. The Ram temple signifies that. What they forget is that India is a confederation of ideas and cultures.”

The divergence in Bengal could be seen in the menstruation pavilion. The chief organizer, Ellora Saha, a local Trinamool Congress politician, explained to a rapt group of women and men that a young girl depicted in the installation was pushing against a hand representative of an “evil society” that bars her from entering temples during her period.

“Durga Puja is all about empowerment of female powers, and if we can worship an idol, why don’t we every single woman?” said Ellora Saha, the chief organizer of an installation on menstruation.

“Without the menstrual cycle, a woman is incomplete,” Ms. Saha said. “God has blessed us through this system to give birth to a new life. And that is nothing to be ashamed about.”

“Durga Puja is all about empowerment of female powers,” she added. “And if we can worship an idol, why don’t we every single woman?”

Not all of the festival’s pavilions, known as pandals, had a political message. Some served as an escape from the drudgery of daily life, transporting the burgeoning middle classes to faraway lands. Disneyland, for instance, or Hogwarts.

Crowds pressed from one pavilion to another on foot, decked out in their finery, with some walking miles for “pandal hopping.” The fragrance of fresh marigolds and tuberoses mingled with the smell of incense. Rhythmic beats of traditional percussion instruments could be heard from afar. Sweets shops and stalls selling noodles or puchkas, a deep-fried Kolkata street food, did a brisk business.

Still, many festivalgoers like Ms. Roy said they preferred the pavilions with “social messaging more than the blingy ones.”

“Day by day, Pujas are turning a new page. And my daughter is not going to follow the taboos we were made to,” Ms. Roy said as she looked at her 9-year-old, Reetika.

Bhabatosh Sutar, an installation artist, said he had decided to create a pandal after being shaken to his core by the news of women being paraded naked during the ethnic violence in Manipur. His pavilion, called “Gano Devta,” or “Deity of the Masses,” featured a 15-foot idol of a woman symbolizing Durga. The idol was rough and colorless, with bruises all over.

At the pavilion on child trafficking and sexual assaults against women and girls, Sritama Adhya, 27, stood in front of an installation made of a huge brown sack from which a little girl’s hands and legs protruded, her rotund face sticking up at the top.

“This art installation will spread a message to the masses,” Ms. Adhya said. “I would say this kind of Puja installation which gives a social message while maintaining the religious aspect of this tradition is more meaningful than a replica of a yet-to-be-constructed temple.”

Jung's chart is worth looking at in a discusssion about the undistorted masculine and the Black Moon Lilith :

I have used the H12 Mean Black Moon Lilith here which conjuncts the Midheaven. The undistorted masculine requires a lot of elimination at the root beneath the sacral center and this chart speaks to that elimination with Moon Pluto down there near the IC and then the Mean Black Moon opposition point on the IC.

The first time I saw this chart with the Mean Black Moon /Midheaven conjunction - it just made sense - its the alchemical sacred marriage beyond gender.....

The H13 Black Moon in conjunct the North Node ruler Mars, 1181 is in the 7 th house at 19 Virgo, and H58 is in the first house conjunct Saturn.

Replying to Michelle Dench,

Thank you,

I wanted to suggest the Asteroid Lilith and the Black Moon /Apogee-Perigee are related and the recovery of the undistorted masculine may be linked to both.

Greetings Helena, Jordyn, and All,

Thanks for your patience. Here is my interpretation of the primal Lilith expressed through

 the 5th House or Leo:

Lilith in the 5th House or Leo

Lilith’s root as the Sacred Feminine principle of nurture, inseminated in Aries (yang/cardinal/fire), becomes thrust out into the world embodied by all of Nature for its osmosis and 

preservation (yin,fixed,earth). Naturally osmosed by Lilith in Taurus, the principle of nurture is then thrust out through the fluidity of the linear mind in Gemini for its categorization

 (yang,mutable,air) as a means for mental association, enrichment and inclusion with the

 natural world. It is then regenerated again in Cancer (yin,cardinal,water) where Lilith’s 

emotional body of intelligence is birthed, generating selfawareness through an individuated 

egocentric identity fundamentally reflecting it. This emanates from nurturance through 

mother and familial emotional imprinting that creates a sense of personal identity, security

 and belonging. 

In the 5th House or Leo, Lilith’s primal nature is thrust out again for its individualized expression and selfactualization (yang) after the principle of nurture imprints the foundation of the individual’s self-image (4th Cancer yin). Lilith in the 5th House or Leo will be driven to self-actualize the principle of nurture as a reflection of the Soul’s essence - its primal truth and

 beauty in its individualized form. The Soul’s primal truth and beauty exist as its native root, where the thrust for its selfactualization originates as its most fundamental individualized 

expression. Truth and beauty are experiences known intuitively through the human heart 

that nurture and regenerate Essence reflecting the Soul’s true nature. They constitute the 

fundamentals emanating from the individual Soul as blessings by Source that nurture its 

human consciousness as it aspires to selfactualize. Upon their efflorescence, Lilith’s purpose in Leo or the 5th House is to take charge of the individual Soul’s destiny so it can unfold and 

blossom from within its core in this way. 

Being both the second fire and fixed sign in the zodiac, the 5th House or Leo’s 

uncompromising and constantly regenerative inspirational thrust is symbolized by the Sun,

 the ruler of Leo. The Sun signifies the Divine Mother’s blessing whose timeless luminescence as unconditional and eternal love that enriches to satisfy the heart also acknowledges the 

Soul’s truth and beauty as a child of the god/dess with a special destiny by birthright to 

creatively actualize and fulfill. This knowing of birthright operates unconsciously for Lilith in Leo, its perception limited to a gushing sense of exuberant fullness emanating from its core

 that perpetually flows. It is from that sensation that the limitless thrust of its creativity flows. From its intelligence, a unique individualized expression of the Earth Mother’s principle of 

nurture develops, one that expresses true nature to anoint the Soul with its blessings as it 

aspires to become Self-realized.

Lilith in the 5th House or Leo generates a very subjective and individualistic consciousness 

that by the power of its own selfdirected will seeks to creatively actualize itself in this way, to stand its ground to express that exuberant fullness that reflects its Soul center.  In this

 context, Lilith in the 5th House or Leo will feel that it possesses something of intrinsic and 

genuine significance that makes it special which emanates deep from within that center.  

Accompanied by a sense of personal dignity and ownership, all will manifest from Lilith in 

Leo or the 5th House through a Soulcentered consciousness of a natural human being, full of itself through this most fundamental attribute. Its outward expression, sometimes 

flamboyant or leaning towards the dramatic, whose measure is determined by other chart 

factors, is pure and unfettered by societal conditioning, and will freely and independently 

assert itself as its own special mark of individualism. Whatever that something is (known by

 sign, house, rulership and aspects, location of Sun by sign and house, rulership and aspects, etc.) shapes its life purpose in an authentic way by which its destiny is meant to unfold.  

Lilith in the 5th House or Leo holds the keys to this intelligence, whereby she/he/they 

instinctually nurture actualization for the inner Soul child who embodies it, whose innate

 innocence and purity, as reflections of inner truth and beauty, constitute true nature as 

Essence. Lilith in the 5th House or Leo assures this happens and will fiercely and actively 

spurn all attempts by others to dismiss, marginalize, invalidate or denigrate itself by things 

that impede or threaten its state of becoming as reflections of this. From the standpoint of 

evolutionary need, a chart signature having Lilith in the 5th or Leo may signify a Soul whose 

core has been seriously compromised from trauma or other factors and in need of recovery. Lilith operates in the most fundamental way here, illuminating the way like the Sun itself,

 constant and permeating, and undeterred by any obstacles. Lilith will hold the light steady

 (fixed, fire) while whatever change or healing is needed takes place, never stopping until recovery is complete and selfconfidence with dignity is restored about this most fundamental 

aspect of the Soul’s consciousness.

For Lilith in the 5th House or Leo and for those sharing their life, they will experience Lilith’s need for acknowledgment and encouragement in a constant and permeating way. 

Acknowledgment and encouragement subjectively inspire, energize and support the Soul’s 

thrust for creative actualization. Under Natural Law, acknowledgment and encouragement of any child or adult’s expression of Essence is necessary for its proper development. Not only will Lilith in Leo appreciate being acknowledged and admired for this, but can actively seek 

out others to get and receive this essential feedback, again its measure dependent upon other chart factors. 

The need for another’s feedback also affords Lilith in Leo a measure of objectivity in an 

otherwise very intrinsically subjectified consciousness that (1) others are needed for its light

 to shine which (2) encourages and inspires its way. In this way, it understands that self-actualization is invariably tied to its interactions with others. This ultimately nurtures the 

contour of its divine seed nature, its greater purpose and destiny as a reflection of Essence, 

unique to itself, to be actualized beyond itself - i.e., for the benefit of others as its Soul 

individuation evolves and refines its collective expression (Aquarius polarity). Lilith in Leo or 5th House protects and preserves the integrity and purity of the Soul’s individuated 

expression as Essence throughout (fixed, fire).

In this regard, the Soul’s truth and beauty driven to individualize by Lilith in Leo or 5th 

House is wholly its own, a subjective undertaking which it must learn how to craft in order to creatively selfactualize by the power of its will. By its power and the abundance of its 

magnanimous nature which it happily sheds upon others like sunlight, Lilith in Leo or 5th 

House’s creative thrust is joyfully expressed with positivity, playfulness, creativity, unbridled enthusiasm, and dignity, and most of all delivered by an unwavering, honest and generous

 heart. For Lilith in Leo or the 5th the Soul’s particular nature through which its Essence as

 truth and beauty are expressed is meant to make its mark and be cultivated in this way. 

Exuberant and generous hearted just as the Earth Mother is, its unique gift or talent as its 

personal resource (Taurus) is given purpose and creative thrust while being affirmed in life 

through positive acknowledgment, encouragement and support from others. If it is not, it 

becomes lackluster indeed, losing its light while being deprived of expressing that which

 gives itself true purpose. Its individualized expression becomes driven by the nature of 

desires themselves (Leo trine to Aries). In Aries, it’s a process of discovery as it emerges into a new environment and wants no restrictions whatsoever from any outside influence, while

 in Leo or 5th House its discovery is complete, the individualized expression now actualizes

 while appreciating the attention of others to admire and acknowledge itself. As evolution 

unfolds beyond individuation (Leo) to the collectivization of consciousness (Aquarius

 polarity), each individual’s unique resource that becomes creatively actualized initially as a

 personalized expression of Soul identity (Leo) then develops to become an inspirational

 beacon of nurture for others (Aquarius). Meaningful symbolism intuited from the natural 

world itself often act as guides to show the way how its intelligence shall be woven in 

harmonious synergy to Creation’s totality.

As guardian of the Sacred Feminine creating principle of nurture, Lilith in the 5th House or 

Leo reminds us that a child’s parents or primary caretakers represent key players in the

 Soul’s life to consolidate the principle of nurture as a fundamental attribute of its true 

nature. Coming from the 4th House or Cancer, its externalized expression through Lilith in 

Leo or the 5th House for every child or individual is to be freely permitted, encouraged and

 supported as a fundamental and crucial part of its development and actualization process -- regardless of gender. Whatever that is, support is given to help each become creatively

 actualized to their fullest potential through its guiding principle as a function of Natural Law and evolutionary necessity. 

This selfcentered orientation is natural to a child in order to sustain concentration and focus upon its special purpose as it learns how to creatively selfactualize. Because of the deeply

 subjective nature of the Leo archetype, getting lost in the consciousness of oneself, of being 

selfcentered, can be a constant challenge. Its powerful influence to spawn narcissism is 

mitigated under Natural Law through the founding principle of nurture itself: The

 individual’s creativity becomes expressed as an extension of an egocentric identity (Cancer) paradigmatically infused and informed by the principle of nurture. Living for itself and only

 for itself is a distortion of this which will only manifest when the principle of nurture is 

retarded or repressed in some fundamental way during the individual’s developmental 

process. Due to patriarchal influence overturning Natural Laws, which includes repressing

 the Sacred Feminine principle of nurture and normalizing its antithesis as exclusion and 

dominance, many reasons and factors exist creating distortions of this type within this 

archetype. 

In essence, Lilith in the 5th House or Leo operates as the guardian and protectress of 

children or adult’s freedom to actualize their true nature, not as vicarious extensions of 

parents, but one in harmony to Natural Laws and to true nature whose egocentric root is

 defined by the principle of nurture. This orientation can be skewed from childhood 

displacement or lack of nurture by caregiver(s) that creates the dichotomy of what does the 

child need from the parent versus what does the parent need from the child to fill its own 

void. The 5th House and Leo connects to children in the sense of parents projecting their 

identity upon their children to fulfill some unsatisfied personal and selfcentered vicarious

 need (distorted Leo) versus objectifying their child’s unique identity and independently 

encouraging its fulfillment and creative selfactualization (Aquarius polarity). For adults, this 

can manifest as an extension of their own displacement from childhood for not receiving this basic acknowledgment of their specialness. Needing verbal acknowledgment to feel special is the hallmark of the inner child being expressed through Leo or 5th which if not satisfied, can be unrelenting in its need for attention. 

Developmentally skipping this step can be seen contributing to the pathological neurosis and distortions associated with this archetype, i.e., being overtly selfcentered, narcissistic or 

arrogant and, in its extreme, having a bottomless pit of need for constant attention to feel

 secure and relevant. The presence of Lilith in Leo or the 5th House may signify a dynamic

 of this type if other factors in the natal chart support it. In this context, Lilith in Leo or the 

5th House serves to mitigate or eradicate any displacement by its constant and permeating 

illumination. 

There exist a variety of other distortions linked to this archetype from the effects of 

patriarchal conditioning. This connects to bias and discrimination from beliefs around

 gender, race, religion, ethnicity, etc., that leave targeted children feeling marginalized and 

inferior. For many, any possibility to freely express their Soul’s nature is completely denied

 them, as children and as adults.

With respect to gender, in the patriarchal worldview male children were generally favored 

over female children because of the erroneous belief that they were superior to females in all ways - physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Hence the patriarchal practice in

 some cultures of killing female babies in favor of male children. Likewise, it was believed 

that only male children possessed the capacity, intelligence and sense of responsibility to be afforded positions of power and leadership to control (often forcibly) the destiny of family

 interests. Therefore the transfer of family or dynastic power and wealth was only through 

male children. The hidden truth behind all this is that females tend to be peacekeepers 

versus aggressors, so the preference for males makes sense in a patriarchal world that 

glorifies dominance and exclusion.  

To ensure paternity and keep wealth within family bloodlines, the wives or reproducing 

female(s) were strictly forbidden from having sexual relations within anyone besides their 

husband. Women were often forced to serve as an ondemand reproductive vessel for this

 purpose, exploiting this most sacred function and power belonging to women. For women 

not of means, this includes their cultivation, mistreatment and enslavement as domestic 

servants, and for all, their devaluation as nothing more than objectified, transactional 

commodities traded between families, tribes and/or dynasties for this purpose. By nature, 

not all women are cut out for this. For them, this results in a staggering sense of oppression and meaningless in their lives.  

On the other hand, males possessing a strong quality of nurture in the patriarchal world 

were generally considered weak, being effeminate as if it were a totally emasculating thing, 

and frowned upon. Under patriarchal rule, the male’s function became increasingly molded 

to be aggressive and warriorlike to fight the many wars to protect wealth and resources, or

 to seize them from others. This includes the misuse of physical power (Aries) for war and 

lence to force compliance from others and biased ideological manmade narratives to

 promote the falsehoods that sustained their continuation based upon exclusion and 

dominance. Selfinterest became normalized, selfaggrandizement and abject narcissism 

reached unprecedented levels within the ranks of the wealthy and powerful. The natural way to selfactualize - through the yin principle of nurture, became crushed under its heavy boot

 of oppression. 

With respect to those whose nature was being a warrior, under Natural Law its self actualization manifests as a protector or defender - of self, family, tribe, community or 

nation. Although represented by Aries or its ruler Mars, in the 5th House or Leo this type of 

training and experience might be received through play, games or friendly competitions

 testing stealth, agility, and strength. One would not naturally engage in aggressive behavior, battles or militaristic actions unless prompted in selfdefense or to protect and defend others and/or essential resources required for survival of same. For male children who are not 

warriors and express nurture in other ways such as through scientific, religious or 

medical pursuits, acknowledgment for their actual nature, whatever that is, might be

 seriously withheld by the father or other prominent male family members, especially if they identified with a warrior consciousness and expected their children to do so likewise.

For other children, selfactualization might be stifled, denied or repressed for those 

stigmatized or discriminated against because of any gender, including its many expressions 

in today’s world, race, ethnicity, religious affiliation, being born out of wedlock, and/or

 exclusion due to family rivalries or infighting. Girls or daughters were especially susceptible and vulnerable because of patriarchal beliefs of their inferior status compared to male 

offspring as cited. If any of the other stigmatizing or discriminatory factors were present 

such as race, ethnicity, etc., the situation was compounded and often became grave indeed.  

In the case of wealthy and powerful fathers who had more than one wife producing offspring, male offspring by less influential wives might fall into this category and be considered 

inferior to the alpha female’s children. Children perceive these undercurrents which can 

create debilitating insecurity, especially when they are deprived of acknowledgment and 

encouragement for who they naturally are. 

In all these instances, Lilith in the 5th House or Leo can be relied upon by the Soul to reclaim itself from these abuses. Some of these issues can be seen from the previous charts we have 

already done, where interestingly Lilith’s North Node is found in the 5th House. - i.e., Maya 

Angelou, Anthony Bourdain, and King Charles III.  For them all, Lilith’s North Node paves the way into the future to take charge of their destiny by reclaiming and creatively actualizing 

their true self as a reflection of Essence, unimpeded by outside influences, with creativity, 

dignity, sincerity and a bit of flair!

If there are any questions or comments, please feel free. As for finding someone with Lilith in the 5th , has anyone come up with anything? I am currently searching for a feminist, thinking that would be pretty powerful here. Do you like that idea and should I continue searching?

Goddess Blessings, Mary

Hi Jordyn, Helena, Nerissa and All,

With respect to the thread’s future, the time factor is weighing heavy for me as well, 

especially considering how long this thread has been active. I also have other responsibilities that I must dedicate my time to now. Since all of us seem so busy, perhaps we can all agree 

that this is a natural time to wrap things up. I am hoping that what we have covered so far 

sufficiently satisfies Jordyn’s initial need to see how Lilith operates through the houses. In 

fact, Jordyn got the opportunity to synthesize Lilith in Cancer in the 7th house for Vico Ortiz, demonstrating her understanding and proficiency of how this would work.

I hope that the energy we three have put into this thread to date has satisfied not only 

Jordyn’s interest in learning how Lilith operates through the houses, but deepened

 understanding of this archetype for any others following the thread. At least, we have 

provided a pretty good idea how the archetype of Lilith works through the principle of 

nurture as a universal baseline for all genders in their undistorted expressions. For the

 archetypes in the upper hemisphere, the same principle, differentiated by archetype, would apply. 

If Nerissa is still interested in doing Joan of Arc for Lilith in the 6th, I can provide the 

interpretation and followup for that, but beyond that it would have to be my last one. I hope

 that works for everyone as well. Please let me know your thoughts on this when you have 

time. 

And Nerissa if you are following this, can you let us know what you would like to do? Your 

contribution would be truly awesome! Thanks.

Goddess Blessings, Mary

Hello Mary, Nerissa, and Helena,

Here is the chart for Joan of Arc

Goddess Blessings,

Jordyn

Hi Mary, Jordyn, Nerissa and All,

As we are closing the thread (Nerissa, you're welcome to post if you still want to) i wish to bring attention to the chart of Michelle Obama. Today i was entertaining the probable wishful thinking moment of having Michelle Obama as the next president of the United States (i'm sure many people would be too!) when news arrive today that polls say she is the sure one able to beat trump in case Biden steps down. I went to see her chart and its really interesting to see her Lilith on the south node Capricorn (together with Vesta and Psyche and mercury!) and this right front the degrees of tomorrow's new moon! Just please contemplate this symbols...

The way i see things, this astrological correlations are gold for anyone trying to learn EA and the application of natural law, hence why i'm posting. One cannot make this things up and EA is about observation and correlation, and i was only imagining the pressure that could be within her soul to what this means, knowing se already said she does not want and will not run, but knowing the impact her choice could have on the lives of so many others and ultimately the world, knowing she could be the first woman (and also a black woman!) President of the most porwerful nation. And not only that but to beat that evil creep... Well this is also highlthing one other thing in her chart (and i am not going to elaborate deeper as i don't feel personally that is appropriate but leave to your personal considerations and observations) is that this is also manifesting what in EA we call a temporary skipped step with the transit of the nodes approaching a square to her mercury (ruler of her pluto) and the transit of the nodal axis is also squaring the natal nodal axis (leaving exact aspect at this point) with the transit north node conjuncting her jupiter (which is her natal skipped step), resolution node the south node with Lilith, mercury, vesta, psyche! This is maximum pressure in the life of this amazing soul! I'm sure her soul is doing what is right and true for herself and her journey, i just think it's incredible to see how this collective hopes and dreams can be seen projected at this point in time so sharply.

I leave the chart with today's transit (there is no birth time, birth data January 17 1964) and Deva's teachings on transits and temporary skipped steps link from the old message board that are very helpful and succint.

"2) If the transiting nodal axis is square a natal planet the specific dynamics symbolized by the nodal axis (by house and sign locality) then the current dynamics that are linked with the transition from past (transiting South Node) to future ( transiting North Node) act/serve as a skipped step in terms of the natal squaring planet. In other words, the transiting nodal axis symbolizes where our past meets our future, so to speak, and that those specific dynamics are now acting as skipped steps in the context of the natal planet. Again the transiting nodes symbolize the evolutionary movement/integration from past to future in the current time while the natal nodal axis reflects the ongoing transition from the evolutionary past to future throughout the life. "

https://forum.schoolofevolutionaryastrology.com/index.php/topic,425.msg31450.html#msg31450

Goddess Blessings,

Helena