Thanks Deva! Ok so I suppose if you see things in the chart, you don’t let the client know.. it’s more about them getting what they want out of it and letting them steer the conversation? Letting things manifest as they should or as the client wants and not what the astrologer sees or wants to say? But as an EA astrologer, wouldn’t we at least say the Pluto paradigm? Isn’t that what EA astrologers do? Or does the entire reading revolve only around their questions? Is there an example of a chart reading dialogue with someone? I’ve only seen interpretations with other astrologers using the Pluto methodology using the info in Pluto books

Right yes. So if mars and Pluto are in a full or more phase it means the conflict can be greatly reduced in this or future lives.. the Pluto book says “ this conflict can be reduced in magnitude if this is not the first or second time, the person has come back in that gender” And I guess maybe this could mean that based on the phasal relationship of mars and Pluto, the subject is the lesson itself.. and the further along they are, the more comfortable they will be in that lesson. So if I’m reading their chart, it’s possible that I won’t be seeing certain things because they will have figured out ways to find comfort in what would be hard in an earlier phase. In this example the individual would begin feeling comfortable in their gender (mars Pluto full or more phase relationship) and the discomfort will not apply as much. Thanks that is very clear Deva! I’m going to go over the Pluto book vol 2 tonight

This is very helpful, thank you!

Oops I just reread what I said before and I meant JWG Soent a lot of time teaching astrologers to unlearn regular astrology in order to understand EA **

You’re welcome! I’m happy it helped a little :)

Also I read a few times that JWG said he spent a lot of his time “unlearning” regular astrology to understand EA. It seems normal for astrologers to get a bit confused in the beginning in order to relearn. I got super confused if I tried to use regular astro to understand EA. But the fundamentals are needed since it’s an advanced course. Ari has a fundamentals course too. I’m not sure how advanced you are in astrology, I started with almost nothing haha

I can only tell you what I have been doing and maybe that can help? I keep moving one step forward and two steps back and I’ve just accepted that it’s going to be a very long yet fruitful journey. I have had to go back to each archetype using the transcript of the dvds (I printed it) and the Pluto book. If I get stuck, I research the forum, buy a book on that archetype.. I do some chart interpretations almost daily to practice or find the archetypes I’m studying. I like to explain the archetype to some people I know so that I understand it better. Then I keep rereading over and over whatever material I feel stuck on and I just follow my own void and trust that it’ll come together when it has to. Some of the EA astrologers on the forum have their own classes and they also do some tutoring which could be helpful. I would say unless it’s specified that it’s a planetary node (which is more advanced and I won’t get to those in a while, but it’s good to have an idea) then it’s probably a lunar node (which is a fundamental in EA). Some of the words can be used to describe two different signs sometimes but it starts to make sense once you start getting the energies down. I wish I could think of an example but I’ve had it happen a few times. Most of the time I’ve just misunderstood something. Like I thought objective thinking was Gemini but it’s actually Aquarius. The mixup comes from the air trinity. So knowing the trinities, m/f energies, modalities is super important and I think this is the only place I use esoteric astro to help me find how the archetypes were formed. Oh and I really love researching the natural zodiac because it makes all the archetypes make sense. Like there’s a natural square between 7 and 10 which explains a lot of libra and Capricorns energies. I don’t know if this is helpful, I’m still figuring it out myself but hopefully you get something out of it! It’s overwhelming in the beginning but once you zoom in a bit it gets super exciting, and eventually you’ll look back and realize you’ve actually come quite far. :) ,

Hi, I’ve been doing the course myself for over a couple of years but from what I’ve studied and read I have tried starting his examples from scratch.. helps me understand w a visual. The Pluto paradigm protocol is key and it makes everything so much easier to grasp but I’m still trying to get in a better flow. I would recommend using the words/archetypes of EA because I find if I mix other types of astrology I get confused. EA is solid and the only time it’s wrong is if I’ve messed something up 😂. I’m sure they overlap a lot but I found that the others are not as accurate nor as specific. I know on the forum they always recommend you follow the EA protocol and I totally agree! But you can test it out yourself :) Oh for books, I’ve ordered a few of Devas recommended books and the ones by JWG.. they are all amazing! Obv the Pluto book but I really like the glossary and Uranus I could have sworn I saw a list of EA word associations per sign but I can’t find anything so I must be mistaken. I’ve just been writing my own while taking the course. Hope that helps !

Oh wow yeah. During that period of time, the ruler of the intercepted sign was transiting conjunct Pluto and the natal ruler was opposite transiting Pluto (ruler in an intercepted sign also).. as well as south node transiting the intercepted sign in the first house. Actually a lot of stressful aspects at that time. Thank you for asking that, it’s helping me build better habits. Does JWG talk any more about Pluto crossing the first house cusp. Could I say there’s a death (and rebirth) of something related to every cusp that Pluto crosses?

Thank you

thank you 😊

Hi, thank you so much for your reply! Your explanation was very clear and matched what I’ve read in the course, but I’m still having trouble with this one. When I observe charts, Pluto in the 9th doesn’t stand out to me the way other houses do. In consensus state, it often sounds like either Pluto in Libra or Pluto in the 10th, and the 9th house themes feel less obvious. As I understand it Libra Pluto would expand consciousness through relationships because expanding consciousness is a part of evolution so I can’t really see it specifically in 9h and not in most Pluto Libras. When JWG mentioned “using the forces,” it resonated, but also felt very 10th house in application. The Libra themes are loud, but I also have Pluto in Libra, so moral and ethical dilemmas don’t feel unique enough to make the 9th house influence “click” for me. I think my struggle is that unless I can clearly see the manifestation in real life, I have trouble integrating it, and so far my observation of 9th house Pluto people hasn’t revealed something distinct from other houses. I hope it’s clear that my frustration is internal and not with your answer, your answer is super appreciated and it makes perfect sense

It’s funny right after I wrote the last comment I remembered this video of JWG speaking about the moon and it has everything you said and the response to my questions! The only one I have now is the dofeeence between the integration that the moon does with that of the sun. I’m not sure if I understand the difference between their integrations. What is an integration? To me it’s taking something and processing it so that it becomes a part of you. Here is the link to video: https://youtu.be/fkhwJ74PVBg?si=PdwrirvcvHis_vYp

I just caught an error I made in the teaching while I was reading the essay book. The ego is the lens and not the projector. I thought, subjective consciousness and ego were the same thing. But it says subjective consciousness is the projector and ego is the lens. As you said ego is the integrating function. It’s hard because it feels like a personality. But it’s just an integrating function.. and I guess if integrates through emotions? Also hard because I thought I read the same thing about the sun. It integrates all the planets. Makes sense that they’re together. Is there  diff between the two ways they integrate? I’m not sure if I understand subjective consciousness very well, but I imagine it to be something like a thought or a belief. Kind of an airy idea of ourselves. I guess that’s why the words self image were used. And through the ego we are able to quantify subjective consciousness ? Is it like a denser version of the soul kind of like how mars is to Pluto? It did makes sense to me that the ego is also like a projector, and the lenses being our personality7h, instinct 1h and societal personality 10h Where does the subjective consciousness come from? Is the subjective consciousness the ego of the soul? There’s just something that is hard to grasp for me about the moon. It feels too vast and hard to pin point. Also, if we see life “as we are” meaning through the lens of ego.. it sounds very similar to Sagittarius. We also see through our beliefs. Can you help me differentiate between the two? I think I’m really interested in perception. Which I thought was a sag function. Maybe the inconjunct between 4H and 9H are a factor in how we see the world? So then 7H and 1h must be. I could see how the comparison (and mirroring?) of 7H would filter how we perceive the world around us but I’m not sure about 1H. I seem to always get stuck on the moon and the sun.

Oh also: what is the difference between spirit and soul?

Hi Ari, Thank you for linking the thread with Rad — I really appreciated both of your responses. I’ve been sitting with it, but I still find something in me feels like I’m missing the full understanding. I’m wondering why these feelings sound so primal — which feels Aries to me. And then I started thinking: maybe it’s because of the Libra–Aries axis. Primal feelings. The Taurus–Scorpio axis could bring about feelings relative to that inner struggle or duality — the pull toward and away from source. Or the push and pull away from things. And since Scorpio is in the water trinity with Cancer, maybe that’s also why feelings and emotions get mixed up? I always try to experiment with myself, and I noticed that feelings show up more like a good/bad, fight/flight, like/dislike response. They lead me toward or away from things in my environment — maybe even my inner environment. When I observe emotions, it feels more linked to memory. A kind of nostalgia — memories weaving together a complex set of thoughts, mixed with these more primal feelings. Like a memory bank that shapes emotional structure. But maybe that’s just my own subjective experience. So others experience it the same way? Could the axes and aspects help deepen the understanding? I’m Curious to hear your thoughts on this.. thanks again for taking the time :)

Hi Deva, Thank you so much — yes, this really makes sense and deepens my understanding. I was speaking with my mom recently about the ego, and I’ve been trying to link the EA definition of ego with the way we use the word in everyday language — like when we say someone is “in their ego” or acting arrogant. It feels like what you’re describing bridges that: when emotional security is lacking, especially from within, the ego structure becomes more unstable or distorted. That seems to be when those more defensive or egotistical traits arise. It kind of sounds like the Capricorn cancer axis. My mom and I talked about things like pretentiousness or social image — which I now see could relate to the square from Cancer to Libra (seeking validation from others), and the opposition to Capricorn (external status or social veneer in public). And maybe Aries plays in too — as impulsive reactions or trying to force identity when the emotional core doesn’t feel safe. Would it be accurate to say that these signs Aries, Libra, and Capricorn — act as lenses or outlets for the ego (Cancer) to express itself? (Can I do this with all signs?) And that when emotional security isn’t being generated internally, the ego distorts through those signs? Maybe that’s what we often label as “ego” in a more negative sense — but it’s really emotional insecurity driving projection? Thanks again:)

This is really great thank you so much, I’m going to take some time to really go through it properly

Thank you @littleaprilshower ! I’ll look into it more as well.. i wonder if the Taurus side is more sensual than emotive .. but I’ll keep digging!:)

Thank you for your response. I’ve heard his teachings, thank you… It’s sounding like superficial thoughts versus core beliefs in cognitive behavioral therapy, which to me echoes the 3/9 house polarity. But since we’re dealing with emotions and the 4H, could this point more toward a 4/10 dynamic? Is there something in the 10H, Saturn, or Capricorn that could reflect the feelings we’re referencing? It’s just not clicking yet. The feelings JWG describes seem very first house—instinctive. But then tying in that polarity brings in Libra, which starts to make some sense too. Do we have feelings that don’t link to something deeper? Are they just nervous system responses to our environment—and it’s the connection to trauma and memory that forms emotion? I’m still trying to make sense of this. I tend to learn by deeply understanding patterns rather than memorizing frameworks, so I often need to break things down until they resonate viscerally. It’s not always a linear process, but it’s how I build real integration. Also what is the diff between spirit and soul? Maybe an astral body and soul?