Jordyn, I'm excited that you'd be willing to share your reality of Lillith in the 6th! From what I've gleaned here & there on the board you've had some intense experiences. Actual reality to back up the chart, and help us all to learn from. This occurred to me last night, thinking of some other soul for the 6th, naturally I myself came up and just no, lol. I'm all introversion and intensity and just about nothing in the 'real world' to learn from, and lots of Taurus and Venus retrograde! It's funny, because you've got that Scorpio going on relative to Taurus. I thought I recalled you had Lilith in the 6th and haven't been able to shake off the thought of your chart being the lillith/6th. We shall see what Helena, Mary and All think of this. Very glad you were okay with my suggestion. Blessings Nerissa

Helena, I'm so glad you laughed and apparently can totally understand what I'm saying! Both your insights and Mary's are such a gift to Virgos. When I first came across astrology, 11 years old, it was just these little booklets and I thought we actually read them and decided what we were, lol. Then I was excited that we were 'assigned' a sign and then read about Virgo. What a bummer! Lol. Yikes. Virgo is very much in the shadow of the Pisces age, of course the usual nonsense about the feminine, the projections. We know better ;) And thank you Jordyn. I set myself back health wise. Put away all the stuff, and the crutches and it's all back out now! But, I can still focus on Joan, just won't be this weekend as I'd hoped. However, I am wary of doing so with a lack of the basics of what we need with regard to Lillith. And, yes, I do have this odd deep feeling of leaving her alone. Now, I'm the one who suggested her chart! I have to think though that perhaps another chart should be done? I am genuinely on the fence. And to not be too bold, but here I go, I'm wondering if whomever it is here who has Lillith in the 6th would step forward. (not me! My life is boring). But, Jorydyn, was it you, that have Lillith in the 6th? I do wonder if you'd mind your chart being examined? ( I may be not recalling properly that you've that placement, forgive me, if so) If not, perhaps someone else on the board? At any rate, I am thinking that maybe Joan is a no-go.....? Blessings Nerissa

Mary, Helena, Jordyn and All, It's a bit off an impasse, and one I remember in the past, every so often I revisit Joan and I've almost always abandoned it because of these chart issues. I actually have studied her death chart more in depth, because we know that date is true, however, there's still the issues of accuracy going this far back for reliable data. The chart we do have is striking though, and many transits, including the nodes on Jupiter/Moon etc, on top of the transits to natal Saturn. And her role as the embodiment of the divine feminine is well captured with her 6th house placements. Because that is what it was, in these times she would not have been eschewed as we might think now because she was a woman - she wasn't going into battle, she was leading as the Divine Feminine and accepted as such. These were medieval times, her role was more easily accepted than I think we, now, can fathom. But....that's going much deeper into the historical aspect. Her Pluto is on those degrees that correlate to souls who are 'on a mission' if you will, no matter their spiritual state, but it's something to see the 11th coupled with Uranus in the 7th/Aquarius! And, also, thus the projections, however, in some ways, that was the entire point, however she ended up buying into that projection, owning it for herself versus BEING it for others. I've been poking along with her chart. I think I was too optimistic with my health and thus pushed myself and set myself back. I'm really on the fence about continuing with regard to the uncertainty of the data. Helena, you must realize I have lillith balsamic conjunction to Mercury and Pluto in the 6th plus a Virgo sun (blessedly in the 5th!) - so, you give me much too much credit that I won't do the 'Virgo thing' lol (as JWG would phrase it). I am genuinely uncertain if we should proceed. Sometimes, I feel like Joan should just be left alone. I think that 11th/Aquarius signature is so strong, and, I do recall JWG saying that she'd have quiet simple lives in nature after that life. But, I'm with you guys, whatever you think is best. And Mary your words: "Generally speaking it  becomes a personal journey of knowing who one is relative to the whole, reality  versus delusion as you expounded upon so beautifully, and the natural humility that comes with accepting the truth of one’s rather insignificant place in the greater  scheme of things. Lilith guides one to recenter there, to reweave oneself mentally  back into the fabric of earthly life that resounds with the sacred as a reflection of  primal nature that manifests it. " Such beautiful words that really captures the soul of Virgo :) These words echo my favorite Emily Dickinson poem: 'I am nobody, who are you?' Blessings All, Nerissa

Popping here briefly to apologize for being AWOL - I've suffered an injury I'm recovering/healing from, guess Uranus on the SN has surprises ;) I think I broke through with understanding the context of Joan, and the times of which she lived, and how perfect she was as embodying the divine feminine and that was precisely what was needed and actually was perfect. It's tough to get out of any mindset, beliefs, projections and now that we are in a 'historical' era, tough to not project our current beliefs onto the past. I could never before really get why Joan would do what she did - I think I can wrap my head around it better now. This week I should be able to focus on the chart & Joan. Thanks so much for all the amazing contributions and also the 6th Lillith insights. It's funny I have lillith in the 6th, I think I thought Joan had it in the 12th when I was first speaking of doing her chart here. Hopefully that helps versus hinders! Looking toward next weekend to have a post up! Blessings! Nerissa

Hi Mary, Hoping I'm clear that I'll post on Joan - ? I can do so in a couple weeks, and look forward to your insights. It will be interesting for me, I get stuff, but then it's gone, so I need to be able to go 'there' to get the insights. I've been resisting! But, clearly, Joan needs to be known here, and, actually, she's a very feminine energy - but, feminine is truly the totality, thus God/dess. Let's just say she wasn't 'She-Ra' princess of power ;) I figure in a couple weeks I'll post, unless you indicate otherwise. Blessings to you, Mary, and to All

Mary, Yes I'd love to delve into Joan, as is possible, and looking forward to your insights! The time frame is perfect, what works for you, works :) Blessings Nerissa

Mary Months ago I had months wherein could not participate in this thread, and when I visited it was a lot to catch up, too much. I popped in, but was too far ahead to catch up. I did speak of Joan of Arc and the 6th. I assume that's been covered? If not, I can try, Joan is about God, not gender, and that's a starting point I suppose!

Rad, I hope I am understanding, and I'd ask further - that the trauma Jesus experienced is simply NATURAL to the circumstances, regardless of his awareness or spiritual state etc - just as what he did, how he used his life here was also simply NATURAL, to simply live the values of God/dess and accept the consequences therein, which he knew, but the wrongness of the 'world' creates the trauma, ie, it's actually the purity of the actions/intentions which can actually 'cause' the trauma - ? Also, I came across the biblical reference: John 18-20 "If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you If you were of the world, the world would love it's own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also.'

Stacie I just saw this now! Yes, this platform buries things. Most threads don't have too many posts to go through, so I guess I'll start doing that, but with other threads, it'd be endless. Edit - I responded to the most recent posts, hope that's not buried, it's so odd all these posts just buried in the thread. Maybe this format is not the best

Thank you for your graciousness, and no, I disagree - I wasn't 'close' lol - maybe kinda ;) Not sure why thought your Pluto in 6th -memories from the old MB Maybe confused that NN in the 6th and the dynamic which, archetypally is similar. Venus conjunct Neptune though will bring up all those Neptunian things - in the EA Glossary Rad & JWG both speak of how difficult the 'neptunian' emotions/reality can be - because the baseline is God/dess and anything else is very confusing. Well, that NN in 6th with Sag, even if not conjunct, you have those nodes of Uranus strong in the signs of your nodes and that 6th/12th axis- breaking the bonds of belief, and being what is NATURAL.

"The affect of his life, and all that circumstances he created within that life, Judas included, affected, affects, each individual who attunes to him in their own ways. Simple example: extending trust to someone who then violates that trust. Every aspect of his life is like that for those who attune to him: the 'lessons' therein for each." Rad, I want to understand this better, are you saying that Jesus was a template, archetypal, his soul was/experienced/reflected the totality of human life, and/or simply his 'fame' would create a reality wherein souls could project whatever they wanted onto him, but they'd only see themselves, for better or worse -? And then that there are those who are like him, and those would experience reality as he did - ? Isn't there some quote of Jesus to the effect that he was hated in the world, and those like him would be hated, too - ? Thanks Rad

Stacie, I only now saw this reply & others. Thank you for digging deeper into these questions, mysteries. I admit I'm still confused about WHY trauma happens, I suppose as Rad says, as always, it's unique to each soul. There's very simple stuff, like, as Rad spoke of - trust being broken. If you are living from a place that is of God then anything & everything that goes against God is an affront that is difficult to understand. Almost certain you have Pluto/6th - as do I - and PPP 12, ruled by Mars - I call that Faith in Action. (forgive me if I'm mistaken!) The action frees up that mental energy, and is FREE via it's release of needing to 'know', there is faith in one's values, in what is inherent and in what one KNOWS via experience versus beliefs. Funny you spoke of Joan of Arc, because that 12th/Mars energy is just her style ;) I cannot recall her Pluto or perhaps it's Lillith - ? But she does have a significant placement in the 6th house. Thanks for creating this topic and your continued thoughts, I, too, continue to have questions, but, I'm also trying to reign in that stubborn Pluto/6th energy! Blessings Stacie, Nerissa

Thanks Rad, So, no matter what, the soul will experience trauma despite evolutionary conditions or evolutionary state - ? Of course, trauma would be natural given Navalny's experiences, but it's depressing to realize no matter how natural one is, how correct a soul is, how aligned with God/dess a soul is, no matter the good of the conscious intention, no matter the consiousness within a soul: there will still be trauma to be overcome. What's the purpose of trauma? Is it simply the natural result of God versus Evil? Which makes me wonder about Jesus, he did say 'take this cup', however, he'll not incarnate here as a human again: so how does his soul deal with that trauma, if it's inevitable? And your 'sure' made me laugh, in a good way, thanks for that, too, as always, Thank you, Rad Nerissa

Rad, Would you say it's true that it's not so much that any soul 'has' to relive anything (excepting certain circumstances) versus that the soul simply, as you have said, picks up where it's left off: therefore dynamics within the soul continue - ? And, is it true that souls that do NOT do as you also said which is: 'never look back' are more likely to relive circumstances (I'd imagine good or bad) and therefore there is a relive signature in their charts? Also, in Navalny, his soul was conscious in it's actions, therefore does his soul necessarily have 'trauma'? I would think trauma is relative to each soul, and I would think that intention has a lot to do with how experiences affect any particular soul. Point being: Navalny will indeed pick up where he left off, but, does that mean he is dealing with PL trauma per se? What if he chose to 'never look back' and integrated the fact that he made his choice to do what he did - I'm thinking there would not be trauma to work through, is that correct - ? How much does the reality of the force of Evil, it's influence, bear on souls and their intentions? It seems the soul, outside of form such as Earth, is vast, and once incarnated it's like the gravitation happens, the magnets come, and I see the planets in a chart like those magnets are the planets in the birth chart of the soul - I know weird 'image', but, wonder if that's a decent approximation of how astrology works? Thanks Rad! :)

Rad, I understand what you are saying is that, no, they do not 'learn' or evolve, aside from evolving toward Evil, which is, utlimately limited. Except: that it's natural law for them to be 'confronted'. They KNOW, they know their choice, what they are doing etc & yes, it's just more fodder for their victim narrative - being confronted. Is this a correct way of understanding this? Thanks again, Rad

One thing JWG and/or Rad (sorry memory off the glossary) that Chiron is not only our wounds but wherein we wound others, & it's funny how often that's how it happens - perpetuating the wounds, mostly because most people are not consciously aware, I think most people are 'wounding' others quite unconsciously, and then there is the identity people adopt of being a 'victim' & that's hard to shake, especially when there has been horrendous abuse perpetrated, all the same, there are no 'victims' but....that leads into the spiritual masochism you spoke of, and that's a tough thing, I would wish that wouldn't exist, and there'd be no need for that. I'm not sure there is, but that's my own issue, my own projections. I'll look into what you suggested-natally Chiron is retro conjunct retro Jupiter straddling Acendent from 1st/12th respectively, so - definitely someting in my direct consciousness! Thanks Jordyn :) ETA - I have really started looking at Chiron with Chariklo - there's some magic there, and I need to gather more thoughts, and data, but more & more I don't think you can look at Chiron without looking at Chariklo

ETA for some reason things highlighted, no idea why, & when try to edit, does weird stuff, sorry

Jordyn! So glad my analogy resonated, it just came out, I'm a creative writer, and in the past I've tried to keep that separate from stuff, like on the MB, but, more & more I've allowed it to flow, and the flow happens without thought. Which isn't to say it's always a good thing! Glad what came forth was something you appreciated and deeply understood. Think was meant for you, for sure. As Helena pointed out ( on another thread), your enthusiasm is vibrant and invigorating - I know it's spurred me to pop on & share too, & for me, there's no where else to do so, & sometimes I get so exicited about stuff, this is the only place to share that. I'm so glad you bring your 'inner child' here, it's a good space to do so and to me very much what I think of as 'The Star' which correlates to Leo/5th/Sun - that inner being that is always a 'child'. And yes, lol, the Scorpio statement: 'shit or get off the pot'!!! Absolutely. Scopio is all about the choices and ramifications therein. I've been popping around back when JWG actually had a website - & I'm a Virgo Elephant with my memory of stuff - it's all knocking around :) The light has returned, Mother Earth is seeding - I hope you, Jordyn, and all realize their blessings, and are blessed. Nerissa ETA - I want to say, more clearly, how much I appreciate your sharing your experience, I don't think I properly acknowledged that - and I think of an Emily Dickinson poem; "I’m Nobody! Who are you? Are you – Nobody – too? Then there’s a pair of us! Don't tell! they'd advertise – you know! How dreary – to be – Somebody! How public – like a Frog –To tell one’s name – the livelong June –To an admiring Bog!" It's all about NOT being a 'somebody' but being a 'nobody' which is actually being who we are :)

Jordyn Your presence here is, to me, like an inspired spirited sprite! You cannot make a dam out of a waterfall. I don't know your inner reality, how you see yourself - but that's how I see you. I hope it's okay to share that. And I am pasting something from the post Rad did about retrograde planets - what Jeffrey said is what I meant, lol ;) Jeffrey: Absolutely. And that is the key: to have it reflect their own individual law or nature. It does not mean forming group bonds with similarly alienated Souls, and adopting those alienated value systems. This is another possibility. But it would then become just another compensation relative to the consensus: the consensus now being a group of alienated people.

By 'obtuse' I meant that it's obvious to me that it's YOU as to the why of souls coming out of hiding - not your town or anything else. It's so obvious I felt stupid saying it, Recognizing who we really are is the greatest gift, to ourselves, each other, and God/dess Much blessings to you too, as Black Elk said: the center is eveywhere, it is within each us of us. I'm posting a response from Rad from the 'old' message board It is interesting to consider this, in the context that a core teaching rooted in inner realization of Soul's through time, is the teaching of 'center everywhere, circumference nowhere'. This natural law is of course reflected in the context of the manifest Creation wherein any given point, place, in  space is it's own center, Sun, wherein that which is external to the point, space, is expanding and moving away from that point, space, without any actual circumference.  In the same way all individual Souls are a point, space, relative to the manifest Creation. Thus, Souls, and the ego it creates, in each life consider themselves, and are orientated too that which is external to themselves, as the center of everything, until the consciousness of any given Soul expands through direct inner perception of the nature of the manifest Creation. In essence Leo, Sun, as the center of everything until it can objectify itself, Aquarius, Uranus, to understand through realization that all of Creation is expanding FROM WITHIN ITSELF: a point in space, place, that expands from within itself that correlates to a continuous state of becoming.  This is what humans call the Godhead, the Creator, the Source Of All Things: that which has set in motion CREATION itself.