I think it might be a good idea to have a post/thread where people can ask questions and follow the post if they are interested in order to "flesh" out the archetypes on a more pointed level, if they have any.
I have a question myself, although this may come across as an obtuse question, I am going to ask because I have the thinking that no question is a "stupid" question..... I know that Pisces/Neptune/12th can reflect a hiding signature. Something I have been noticing is a lot of times this comes in combination with a Taurus/Venus/2nd house signature as well, this makes sense to me with Taurus being a signature of a hermit, and also, self-preservation and survival. My question is through you all's experience have you all seen Taurus and Pisces/2nd/12th/Neptune/Venus in combination correlate to this as well? If you have thoughts about this and "fleshing" out these archetypes that could be beneficial. To me when I have seen this in correlation with clients and also, what I know about EA and clients' charts through my own experience, some seem to have this signature because of self-preservation and survival, the feeling on a soul level to continue to hide in order to have self-preservation and to survive. This is usually in combination with soul's who are Daemon or who are much further along their own evolutionary journey than those around them (family and where they chose to be born into), and sometimes I have seen this with soul's who are hiding their sexuality (the list runs the gamut). Would this observation be correct? If someone has a chart that correlates to what I am asking, I would love for you to post it, so that others can learn from synthesizing these archetypes together.
Much Love and Gratitude,
Edit - I'm sorry the comments from the old board are dark - no idea how to remedy that.
Hi Rad & All,
I was trying to bring comments from JWG from old message board - it's also in the EA Glossary - the discussion is more about souls 'blocking their inherent nature'& how Jupiter & Aquarius signtures would be shown however the end of the lengthy post refers to 'hiding' as far as Neptune in the 12th & Venus & Neptune aspect (I cannot seem to bring over the pertinent post)
So - is there a difference from 'hiding' & 'blocking' one's inherent nature - ?
I'd think, though they'd sound the same, & the behaviors could be the same, that it's not entirely true as the astrological markers for each are different.
'Blocking' - compensation: Jupiter/9th/Sag & Uranus/Aquarius/11th
'hiding' - 12th /Pisces/Neptune & Venus (presumbably the Taurus side)
From the message board: "In the case of Masters like Mahasaya this phenomena is very different than other Souls that do the blocking of their 'inherent natures', and the consciousness therein. In the case of Mahasaya one of the specific purposes of his life was to use himself as an example of the path of the 'householder' in spiritual life, that it is entirely possible to have full God realization in that context as opposed to monastic living. Thus he was born as a Libra. And that dictated that he live enough years to get married, have children, etc in order to have a householder's life. So the 'blocking' was not being caused from within his own Soul: it was caused because of his mission as directed by God itself.
In almost all of the other cases that I know of in which this blocking of their consciousness, their natural natures, has happened from within the Soul itself it has been caused by a lifetime, or lifetimes, in which some major traumatic circumstance has happened BECAUSE OF THEIR INHERENT NATURES AND THE CONSCIOUSNESS THEREIN. And because of the nature of the trauma(s) this has caused the Soul such great fear in terms of being who they inherently are, their natures and consciousness, that they have then 'compensated' for their natures by 'hiding' from the world, the consensus world, who they actually are. And in that act of hiding trying to appear 'normal' from the point of view of the consensus world.
When this happens from the point of view of Evolution it is as if they come to a standstill, and are simply marking time. Psychologically speaking, they create the conditions for depression and the sense of simply going through the motions of life itself. Others will typically keep themselves overly busy with doing one thing after the other in order to avoid as best they can the deep inner pit of loneliness, and existential void, and no real sense of meaning or purpose of a lasting nature. Others can degenerate into a life of escapism in a variety of forms including drugs and alcohol.
Compensation as a dynamic is astrology correlations is Jupiter, Sagittarius, and the 9th House. Trauma of course is Uranus, the 11th House, and Aquarius. There are many possible astrological signatures that can correlate with this situation but the Sag, 9th House, Jupiter, Uranus, 11th House, Aquarius archetypes will be implicated in all cases.
All Souls have karma unless a Soul is in the most advanced states of Evolution such as an Avatar. Skipped steps are read when any planet is square the nodal axis the the Evolutionary intent of course is the recover the skipped step(s).
In terms of your friend there is no way of being able to look at any birth chart and know if a person is 'fully awake' or not. One must do the traditional astrology thing which is to make observations of the person. But your friends case is the archetypal embodiment of the skipped steps that have been caused by compensating for who they actually are due to past life traumas that have caused her to hide. The hiding part in her chart is symbolized by her S.Node in the 12th house, and also her Venus in opposition to her Neptune.
Feel free to ask more about this is you wish Ari."
Thanks for bringing this up Jordan. I am taking the DVD course, but have only completed the first third so far, and have only looked at charts of friends and family. It hadn't occurred to me to look at these two archetypes in combination, but it makes a lot of sense considering the "higher octave" concept of the outer planets. And I actually have this emphasized in my own chart, so maybe I can contribute some personal experience to the discussion.
First I want to comment on Scarlett Johansson's chart. This is a great example Rad, thank you. She's been quoted as saying she has a "fragile ego". With both Sun and Moon in her 12th house, Pisces on the 4th and Neptune in the first, it's surprising she has any "ego", in the popular sense of the word. That looks to me like a heavy dose of potential disillusionment with home and inner security, with emotional connections, with personal identity and self-image, with personal purpose and meaning. However, her lunar north node in Taurus in the 6th, and Venus in Capricorn in the 2nd would seem to make working for material, earthly security a very important value for her, in compensation for the watery dissolution of so many other ways of feeling grounded. To me this suggests that operating in the “lower octave” Venus helps to manage the experience of the “higher octave” Neptune.
How this signature shows up in my chart: without too much detail, I have two planets in Libra in my 12th, ascendant and Sun also in Libra, lunar south node in Taurus in the 7th, Neptune and Venus both in the 2nd house.
My experience; I wouldn’t say I have social anxiety, I just don’t feel well in crowds and don’t find many people I can relate to, but I make no attempts to blend in. I lived in a remote rural area for ten years, where I saw only my immediate family for weeks at a time. The few friends I have now are used to my frequent hermiting.
I think the expression of this combination of archetypes has something to do with listening. Venus/Taurus/2nd listens internally, to their own inner values and resources, unlike Venus/Libra/7th who listens more externally, to others. Neptune as the all-encompassing higher octave of Venus listens to the inner and outer, past and future, to the totality of all consciousness; both Source, and the collective creation. For someone with this synthesized signature of both planets, the volume of what they hear can be overwhelming, especially as planets in the 12th tend to act subconsciously. I don’t consider myself psychic, as it’s not under my control, but the overall sensory input of others’ information is a lot to handle.
Venus has quite selective hearing; Neptune is boundless and less discerning. For consensus and most individualized people, the outer planets are experienced as external forces and not felt as integral parts of one own’s psyche until a certain development of consciousness is reached. So the average person with a strong Neptunian & Venusian emphasis might feel painfully sensitive, be overwhelmed by the noise, and want to hide or have survival security fears. “Hiding” may sometimes also be an attempt for them to avoid the dissolving-ego effect of the 12th. For those conscious of what it is they are hearing, and myself personally, I think of it as a need for sanctuary and cloister. Privacy, withdrawal, and quiet are necessary for the deep listening and subconscious/spiritual work required by this combination.
That made me think of another example, an older male relative of mine, unknown birth time so no houses, but his natal Neptune, Venus, and Moon were all conjunct in Libra. Always withdrawn, in his mid-thirties he became a total recluse, and eventually must have felt too sensitive for this world, as he took himself out of it in a very Neptunian way.
I didn’t realize I had so much to say! I hope this sparks some insights. It would be interesting to discuss other expressions of blended archetypes.
Something I have been noticing is a lot of times this comes in combination with a Taurus/Venus/2nd house signature as well, this makes sense to me with Taurus being a signature of a hermit, and also, self-preservation and survival. My question is through you all's experience have you all seen Taurus and Pisces/2nd/12th/Neptune/Venus in combination correlate to this as well?
Yes, have seen these symbols in the birth charts of Souls that desire to be 'invisible'. Many such Souls will either withdraw as much as they can from social interactions that manifests by living as far apart from other humans as they possibly can and/ or doing all they can to 'blend in' to the social environment so as not to be noticed. Paradoxically, this psychological dynamic can be fully manifest even when a given Soul is quite socially prominent, and has very 'visible' social roles or positions. When such Soul live in this way they commonly have what psychologist call SAD: social anxiety disorder. One such example of this is the movie star Scarlett Johansson whose birth chart I am attaching to this post.
You will see the archetypes that you have pointed out very prominent in her chart.
Underlying causes for these desire to be unseen, invisible, to 'hide out', are a deep sense of alienation from most of the human species, deep and unresolved trauma of one kind or the other including sexual traumas, and extreme emotional hypersensitivity that can have various causes.
God Bless, Rad